 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2016-06-07 22:39
I am a clarinet player and now proud mom of an incoming 4th grader who wants to follow in my footsteps and play clarinet! He has asked me to get him an instrument this summer and teach him a few basics before starting band next year and I have begun researching clarinets to buy. What are your recommendations? Plastic or wood? I have read good things abut the Buffet B12 and I play an R13, so I am partial to that . But cheaper options are tempting. Someone on my local Craigslist is selling a Yamaha YCL20 for $100 that she says I can try before I buy, and a professional clarinetist I met last night recommended the Yamahas as well.
Thoughts? Should I go for the beginner plastic Yamaha (assuming it plays well) or try to find a used B12, or even skip the plastic all together? I started on a wood instrument (my dad was also a clarinet player), but maybe that is not the best way to go now.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-06-07 23:06
Karyn: the scope of your question is clear. I trust that others will have excellent recommendations regarding which instrument to purchase.
I too have such notions, but if I may, I'm going to deviate from your question and recommend that you rent.
And unless you already have a use for this instrument should your son not be interested in pursuing clarinet much, or you had ideas of upgrading your own instrument anyway and will give your current instrument to your son, I am concerned that you could be left with an instrument to sell, with questionable market value, should your purchase be premature .
Of course I hope he takes to clarinet and that each of you have very fond experiences playing together, proving my advice in hindsight to be wrong. My recommendations are based upon probabilities rather than your specific circumstance, whose details are on known to me .
If purchase is the only avenue you wish to explore please say so.
.
Best of luck.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2016-06-07 23:11
I like the Yamahas for beginners, too.
I would never advise getting a more-expensive instrument for a beginner, especially one in elementary school. Most of the clarinets you see on places like Craigslist are there because a student played them for a month or three, then lost interested.
Wood or plastic shouldn't be a consideration if your kid will be careful with the instrument, swab it out after use, and not put it somewhere where it'll get knocked over. Despite what you will hear--and especially at the beginning player's level--wood holds no advantages over plastic for sound quality.
ASSUMING THAT THE INSTRUMENT IS IN GOOD MECHANICAL SHAPE, there's absolutely no reason to spend more than one or two hundred for an instrument for a beginner. (You should also assume that, regardless of what the seller says in all good faith, pads may have to be replaced, leaks stopped, or keys adjusted, so you should expect to have to add a bit more money to the purchase price, at least to have it checked out)
One more caveat: Be careful of the cheap "clarinet-shaped instruments" that you'll find sold on auction sites and through department stores. Stick with established and well-known clarinet makes like Yamaha, Buffet, Selmer, Ridenour, and others present and past. If you come across a brand you're not sure of, check with people here to see if they're well-known or have a reputation as junk.
By the way, one big advantage to buying a used student model is that you'll likely to be able to get as much as you paid for it if you resell it later. New clarinets--especially high-end ones--depreciate by 50% or more after they're played for the first time.
Hope this helps.
B.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-06-07 23:26
Attachment: image.jpeg (42k)
How wonderful!
Of the "Major Brands" Yamaha does seem to have the better reputation on the beginner/intermediate clarinets. Since you're a player, and can give it a good going-over, that does sound like an unbeatable deal.
There are many on this blog-board who may suggest finding oblique brands, of good horns needing repair, and what an unbelievable bargain that would be, once completed. You can do that, if you're a patient soul, but your son will only have frustration while having to wait.
If you are on a tight budget, and that Yamaha plays well, and doesn't need a lot of work, why not? YCL20s are pretty sturdy horns, with a relatively nice sound, and should get him to high school!
If your budget has room, If I may, I would seriously consider going new, with a Ridenour Clarinet. A new Ridenour Lyrique 576 with a great mouthpiece from Tom Ridenour can be purchased directly from him (terms available!) for a wee bit over $900. The sound is great, intonation is spot-on, very comfortable fingerboard, and your son will have an instrument for life! Or, go whole-hog, and go for Ridenour's flagship clarinet, the Libertas, with a fabulous mouthpiece for a tad over $1,800 (and worth every penny!). In any case, a phone call to Tom would be enlightening in any case. Tom is one of the best clarinet acousticians on the globe, but is also one of the friendliest people to chat with!
Since you're a Buffet R13 person, you know the sound and feel of a gorgeous, professional instrument. The Ridenour Clarinets give that same feel, with the added pleasure of knowing it can never crack, being made of hard rubber. This also keeps the price low. The Lyrique 576 is right on par with an R13, the Libertas, in my opinion, surpasses the Prestige models. If you search me out on this blogsite, you can find my history of the top-of the line clarinets that my Ridenours displaced.
There -- sermon over.
But - it is always exciting to hear of one's children wanting to follow, and play this most wonderful instrument.
I would be glad to help, with more advice, or on any questions of "brand" as I've pretty much played them all, playing since I was 5, and now being 61. The photo above is me @ 5 years old!
Please keep us all informed on your experiences, and mostly on your son's new adventure into music!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
Post Edited (2016-06-07 23:31)
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2016-06-07 23:57
Ken, I have to disagree with you on two points.
Ridenour clarinets definitely do not have the same blowing "feel" as R13-like horns, and comparing them to an R13 using the same mouthpiece-reed setup shows the difference.
All the Ridenour soprano clarinets that I've played and own are more resistant than my R13 with the same mouthpiece and ligature; they take getting used to for those used to R13s and other similarly-bored clarinets. (The keywork is different too, but that shouldn't be a consideration.)
This is not to say that they are inferior. I own a Ridenour C, have owned a Ridenour A and a Libertas, and my low C Ridenour bass surpasses many of the high priced instruments in sound quality. I like them.
They also sound different, but I won't get into that here--"different," not "better."
As for buying a Ridenour clarinet for a beginner, I wouldn't plop down $900 at the very start. Though it's unjustified, that the Ridenour is rubber and it's not made by one of the big outfits will make recouping your outlay very hard if you decide to sell it later on. That's the market, and you can't fight its biases, no matter how ridiculous they may be.
B.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-06-08 00:19
Well Bruce, believe what you will!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Musikat
Date: 2016-06-08 00:25
Thanks for the advice so far. To answer a couple of points:
1. At least in our area all rentals seem to be "rent to own," so that by the time I pay $35 a month for even a three month trial period I have paid more than I would have for the Yamaha! However I did go that route for his violin, because he will need to move up sizes and they apply the amount paid to a portion of the next one.
2. At $100 or so, if he doesn't like it I would very happily donate it to our local middle school, which I know is in desperate need of working instruments.
3. I have looked into the Ridenours for myself (although I am reluctant to buy something I can't try and have to send through the mail). I don't have it right now to spare, but f I were going to spend $900 or more on an instrument it would be as a second instrument for myself, or as a step-up in the future for him if he continues. I definitely am not going to spend that on a 9 year old!
I emailed the seller to see if I could come by and try it this week, and just heard someone is coming to look at it tonight (I couldn't have gotten there if I had wanted to, as I actually have a band concert, ironically). If not this one, at least I have a better idea of what to look for.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-06-08 00:36
Good show! Hope all goes well!
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-06-08 06:26
I have nothing to add about your son's clarinet- great advice so far, even if it doesn't all agree (that's what makes this board so much fun).
But I wanted to point out that I have on good authority that the Ridenours regularly send out clarinets on trial. And if you decide not to buy (I would consider that unlikely), the most you pay is the shipping both ways. Call them- very nice folks. And by all means- correct anything I've misstated here.
Good luck!
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-06-08 06:52
If you're looking for a beginner level instrument then also consider the Leblanc Vito. It's inexpensive, plays and tunes well and the keywork is built like a tank. They're widely available on the used market and are hard to beat. Personally I don't particularly like the B12 and it would not feature highly on my list of choices. Any of the Yamaha student instruments would be better, as would the Selmer Bundy or the earlier 1400. Good luck with whatever you get.
Tony F.
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Author: ISM
Date: 2016-06-08 08:22
Karyn,
The Yamaha YCL-20 is a great choice for your situation, especially since you can give it a try first and then pay only $100. Even if your son later upgrades to a fancier clarinet, the Yamaha will be a good backup instrument to use when he's marching in the winter holiday parade (for example).
Good luck!
Imre
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Author: TheClarinetKid
Date: 2016-06-08 12:54
I started on a crappy Chinese unless the major squeaks it was quite good THAN I switched to a E11 Buffet, 'French' manufactured NOT the German one. That served pretty well, now I play a R13 Vintage.
------------------------------------ Signature--------------------------------------------
Buffet Crampon E11 Clarinet (French Buffet)
Buffet Crampon 'Vintage' R13 Clarinet
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Author: Cajun clarinet
Date: 2016-06-09 06:34
My first clarinet was a LeBlanc Normandy that my parents bought at a pawn shop for $60. It was overhauled and was my only instrument from 5th grade through high school. Since you have clarinet experience, you know what to look for. Point being, you never know where you might find a diamond in the rough! Best of luck to you and your son!
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2016-06-09 20:07
I have to second Tony F's suggestion of the possibility of a Vito. I have the advantage of being able to do my own repair work. However, I have been able to get Vitos at auction, overhaul them, and provide them to children of friends for well under $100 plus the time I put in to help a friend. It might be a different story if you got one that needed work and had to pay to have it done. Either way, though, you would end up with a really good beginner instrument without putting out a huge amount of money. I have gotten quite positive feedback from some, previously very skeptical, private instructors. Like Tony said, they are built like a tank. I picked one up for next to nothing because it looked like someone had rolled it under their feet on a hard surface (every single key had been bent). I took it as a personal challenge, did not have to replace any parts, and it turned out to be quite a nice instrument if you didn't mind the one or two scratches that were too deep for me to polish out. A freshly repaired Vito can sell at auction for $200 or so. On the other hand, since I do my own repairs, I don't by one for over about $35. I have gotten some for under $10. Price is not always an indicator of what you get.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2016-06-09 22:44
Bart, that's a wonderful pastime, or hobby, or whatever you consider it to be. You save good instruments from the trash bin, and save young players and their parents from overpriced clarinet shaped objects (CSO's).
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2016-06-10 04:47
It's pretty much a hobby that keeps me tuned up to keep my own instruments in good repair. I have distilled down to a basic repair kit that I can carry with me in a small tackle box, but which covers most common needs. We are in the foothills of the west slope of the California portion of the Sierra Nevada range and repair shops are few and far between. I play mainly on a Selmer Series 9 and carry a Centered Tone as a spare. While I have never had to resort to my back-up myself, it does get used. i repaired clarinets on our band's trip to Washington D.C. several years ago, I have repaired clarinets during rehearsals, and even repaired clarinets during concert intermissions. For major problems, I loan the Centered Tone and do the repair work at home. We will be playing in Golden Gate Park in San Francisco this Saturday. No telling what I will be called on to do there.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-06-10 18:42
Karyn:
I completely appreciated your reluctance towards the Ridenour instruments: their price point, not to mention their "mail order try" paradigm are valid arguments towards steering elsewhere.
FWIW, many of us find the [new/purchased from Ridenour used] Ridenour wares highly consistent and high quality: perhaps the dimensional stability of the hard rubber they're made of (which by the way is *not* an attribute that makes them second rate, and has certain advantages over wood, including price) and Tom's [Ridenour] work on all instruments before they get sent to the consumer helps this.
Many of us also do find them slightly more resistant--again seen by Tom as a design feature, and the company is very good about returns provided you protect the instrument you choose to return, while either in your hands, or during return shipping.
(No affiliation.)
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2016-06-10 19:01
Since Mom is a clarinet player, I would think she would be able to to take a mouthpiece along and test used clarinets and decide which one, perhaps with a little help from an instrument repair shop, would work well enough.
Craigslist Annapolis has a number of used clarinets asking less than $200. As she wrote, if her son gives it up or progresses to a better clarinet, she can donate whatever she buys to a school.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2016-06-10 21:53
Having a Yamaha YCL-20, Vito 7214, Bundy 1400, and Ridenour 576BC in my studio, I would like to add this:
1. The Yamaha YCL-20 is very nicely made and has very strong key work that feels very precise under the fingers and is very tough to bend. BUT, it is pitched on the sharp side and is brighter-sounding than most other quality student instruments
2. The Vito also has very strong key work that should stay in regulation in the hands of any reasonably careful student. It is a mellower-sounding instrument than the YCL-20 and actually quite nice with a good reed and mouthpiece. BUT, in my experience, finding mouthpieces that play in tune with the Vito can be a challenge--sharp throat tones and wide twelfths can be vexing to sort out.
3. The Bundy 1400 has the nicest tone, overall, of the many plastic student instruments I've had come through here. The tuning is also generally accurate with most mouthpieces. BUT, response between the registers can be uneven. The key work is not as resistant to bending as the Yamahas and Vitos.
4. The Ridenour RCP-576BC in my studio is not an appropriate instrument for beginners. The key work is not as sturdy as on the models mentioned above and can go out of regulation unless handled carefully at all times. As an upgrade instrument for someone past the beginner stage, it is, however, without equal. No other clarinet I've ever laid my hands on is so easy to play in tune and has such even and precise response. I did find the Ridenour too resistant for my liking at first, but eventually found mouthpieces that mitigated this.
Post Edited (2016-06-10 21:58)
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Author: jthole
Date: 2016-06-11 14:06
I have a Yamaha YCL-250 for outdoors playing, and it's very good (if very sharp for me, but that probably won't be the case for a beginning player). Before, I had a Leblanc Vito, and I like the Yamaha so much better. Better keywork, more solid feel, good tone, and a nicer finish (yes, I know that doesn't affect tone, but still ...)
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