 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-04 16:00
I know this sounds pretty mundane. Most of us stick the mouthpiece on, sorta align it with the register key and move on.
But is that it?
Within the last ten years I was having some issues with moisture flowing out the last two side keys. To address it I thought it may be a good idea to "tilt" the clarinet more in the other direction to help keep that issue down. So I assumed clamping the mouthpiece in my embouchure was enough to determine the attitude of the horn and rotated the mouthpiece that it was more at the 7 o'clock position (if the register key is 6 that is). And this sorta worked as I "clamped" down on the reed/mouthpiece.
Fast forward to today as I use a MUCH less "active" embouchure and Legere reeds. There is no clamping. I looked at myself in the mirror as I was working a fingering issue and noticed the logo centered on my mouthpiece was off to the side......hmmmm.
So now that I use a much more subtle embouchure there is nothing to truly hold the mouthpiece "flat" in between my teeth. The attitude of the clarinet under these circumstances is determined by how it is held in the right hand, and how you hold your arm (elbows out...clarinet rotates counterclockwise; elbows in.....clarinet rotates clockwise).
What's the difference?
Those who use Legere, know how critical the placement is on the facing (not an issue for me - I have always been anal retentive about that). But having an even "pressure" across the bottom lip IS ALSO important to gain the best sound advantage.
Once I ensured that the mouthpiece's rotational position represented a perfectly flat attitude for the reed/mouthpiece in my mouth, the sound opened up a lot and the response became far more precise.
BUT, my mouthpiece position is more akin to 5:30 on the clock (and that is, again, specific to how I hold my horn).
So in summary I would say the best way to ensure you maximize the response of your reed is to make sure it is sitting as horizontal to your face as possible.
The best way to do that, is to hold your clarinet in front of you as comfortably an
naturally as you can (try not to think about it) and without putting in your mouth, bring it up as if you were about to play and just look at the tip opening. If the the tip opening is not horizontal to your face, turn the mouthpiece so that it is.
This makes a difference.
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-05-04 17:07
Paul Aviles wrote:
> So now that I use a much more subtle embouchure there is
> nothing to truly hold the mouthpiece "flat" in between my
> teeth. The attitude of the clarinet under these circumstances
> is determined by how it is held in the right hand, and how you
> hold your arm (elbows out...clarinet rotates counterclockwise;
> elbows in.....clarinet rotates clockwise).
>
This all begs a question - does rotating the instrument as you're describing cause a change in your fingering approach? When you began to experiment with it did you notice an effect on executing technical passages?
>
> So in summary I would say the best way to ensure you maximize
> the response of your reed is to make sure it is sitting as
> horizontal to your face as possible.
>
This ring a bell for me. According to legend when I was a student in the mid-1960s, the reason Vandoren reeds of the time always seemed heavier on the left was that in theory the position of the clarinetist's right thumb and hand caused some small counterclockwise rotational pressure, so that the left side of the reed was pressed more against the lip. I suspect that this may also have something to do with the use by some players of asymmetrical facing curves.
I'm not sure how relevant this is to what you're describing, except that it does support the need, if the reed is truly balanced (as Legeres are surely designed to be) for it to be flat - horizontal - to the lower lip as you've described.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-04 19:02
Well I did during the approximately ten year period use the rotation of the mouthpiece to experiment with key position. But after a month or so flirting with a certain "feel," I always went back to what did at the time for the moisture path.
If you think about it, the right hand is pretty much married to the clarinet. Sure you can change some things up a bit, but most of the "change" for finger-to-key
relationship is on the left.
If you're willing to address how far up your right elbow goes (and trust me, that is NOT an easy habit to take on), you have a lot of flexibility about the rotation of the clarinet and ultimately how to rotate the mouthpiece.
And I do want to stress getting the horizontal plane right has much more affect on the "light" embouchures out there.
And with cane being more forgiving (you can stress cane in more ways and still get really good results) than plastic reeds, the Legeres also benefit to a greater degree with the proper attitude of the mouthpiece.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: Burt
Date: 2016-05-04 20:32
Paul, I think what you are saying is that the mouthpiece should line up with the head and the rest of the clarinet should be rotated to whatever position is most comfortable for your hands and arms. If so, I completely agree.
In my case, until I had hand surgery, I had to rotate the clarinet so that I could close the right ring finger hole. Now I can keep the register key in line with the mouthpiece but, if I had found that another alignment of the register key were better, I would have used it. I never tried misaligning the mouthpiece to my head and see no advantage to that, regardless of the type of reed.
There's a little flexibility in the alignment of the bottom joint to the top one. It would require a shim in the bridge link to make the 1&1 fingering work right. Until my surgery, I made use of this adjustment.
Burt Marks
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-05-04 20:40
It would seem that, having definitively argued over ligatures to death, we have finally run out of actual topics on the BB.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-05-04 21:00
My front teeth are healthy but somewhat irregular. That has led me to rotate my mouthpiece a bit to achieve a more constant support across the reed and top-to-bottom. Said rotation matches my teeth (and maybe my jaw) rather than my face or head.
A few years ago I had my dentist grind off a pointy tip on a lower tooth. That greatly reduced the irritation to my bottom lip and improved delicate control. I'm tempted to request further alterations, but they're not so easy to undo. Isn't there some kind of shield available for the teeth that would provide a smoothly shaped surface for the elements further out (lips, reed, and mouthpiece?)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-05-04 22:19
Quote:
It would seem that, having definitively argued over ligatures to death, we have finally run out of actual topics on the BB.
LOL. Yeah, when I saw this I was thinking that some people have too much free time!
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-05-04 22:26
Spliting hairs, the generic rule has the mouthpiece aligned with the angle the mouth forms with respect to the ground, which is usually around parallel (0 degrees), and the upper and lower clarinet section's tops, closest to the sky.
Without compromising play, or increasing the likelihood of repetitive motion injury, I can't see slight adjustments to player taste and body shape doing harm.
I've encountered students who've gone beyond these parameters and I have had to decide on a case by case basis whether introducing changes was worth the long term advantages such a switch might bring, versus the short term cost of their relearning.
Of course reverse some of these rules when happening to play clarinet while wearing gravity inversion boots ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) .
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-04 22:30
I think you would just "check" as I have outlined, you may be surprised to find out that the mouthpiece is not sitting horizontal just before you "clamp down on it."
I only put this out there because it DOES make a difference (quite a bit; very noticeable if it is not being done).
I for one would have always continued to just line up the register if I had not have to relearn the clarinet as many times as I have. At least something good came of all that.
And to the remark about ligatures: wouldn't it be great to get an immediate improvement in your sound at virtually no cost?
I guess the $500 ligature is sexier alternative.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-05-05 00:52
Not sure Paul if your "broadcasting" in my direction. If so, I agree with you, no harm is to come from trying your suggestion--and it's certainly quick and free.
I have tried. I am really rigid about mouthpiece placement--that's just me. If its off ever so slightly I feel it and it affects my play--if for no other reason that I find it uncomfortable and distracting--if not actually negatively affecting play/response and sound as well.
Once I marked the upper joint, barrel, and mouthpiece just to facilitate perfect (for me) and quicker assembly.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-05-05 09:24
I strongly feel the mouthpiece should be properly aligned to the horn. I have to go back to practicing habits here. Sounds silly I suppose. But when you practice, the more you practice, the hours and hours you put into it, your sound naturally develops, the tooth placement, muscles,, hand positions, the position/angle of the clarinet coming out of your mouth may not be perfectly straight, a very slight angle, often towards your right knee when standing or sitting is sometimes common.
Let your body setup happen naturally with the proper clarinet alignment. The only change I'd make to the clarinet setup is the position of the thumb rest and or adding a clarinet neck strap if needed for extended horns when playing the Mozart Concerto/Quintet or if you have a weak right arm or a weak thumb.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2016-05-05 11:43
It is worth addressing Phillip Caron and the example of irregular lower teeth.
The important issue is to provide an even "pressure" against the reed as it is "pressed," or rather, damped toward the facing of the mouthpiece.
So the alignment that is in question becomes the line represented by your (up to four) front, lower teeth.
If as Phil suggests that your lower teeth form a line (let's say hypothetically) that descends at a 30 degree angle from your right to left. Then the mouthpiece would indeed be better suited at roughly the 7:00 position (reed looking more to the left of the register key as you look down upon it).
So thank you Phil for helping clarify what I meant.
And to Bob Bernardo's input: Yes I would agree under the situations that are less critical (cane and a more robust embouchure) that you can "let the clarinet dictate terms," but that is a mistake with a much more delicate set-up. Even as I flirt with double lip (sooooooo much easier now) I have to deal with the underlying support that is represented by the teeth. Think about it. Even with double lip it would be just as silly to suggest you could rotate the reed completely to one side or the other without negative consequences as it would be to suggest that it is not consequential to have the reed aligned with your bottom teeth.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-05-09 10:04
Can you have a dentist make an adjustment to your teeth? I was playing hockey and chipped a front tooth a few years ago. Well he fixed it somehow. It wasn't very expensive, no novocaine, in and out in 30 minutes. Hope this helps.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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