 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wtalcroft
Date: 2016-05-05 20:43
Hello! I am a junior in high school and I'm playing on a Selmer Privilege at the moment. It's a beautiful instrument, but I'm really not happy with the mouthpiece or barrel that comes with it standard. I plan on pursuing music and being a performance major, and I am trying to find that sort of, ideal sound that I want, but can't achieve it with my equipment now. I don't mean to say that it's all the equipment's fault however. I know there are things I could probably do to improve my sound somewhat, but I know, after playing multiple different mouthpieces that some things that I don't like could easily be solved with a better quality mouthpiece.
I tried a few mouthpieces and at the moment the Vandoren M30 and CL4 seem to be working the best for me. I tried a MoBa mouthpiece but the one I tried was much too stuffy for me. I haven't tried any barrels yet to find one that fits the sound I am looking for either.
So, I was wondering if anybody could give me any suggestions or recommendations for mouthpieces to possibly try? I would like to try some Clark Fobes or maybe Richard Hawkins mouthpieces but seem hard to come by unless you order them. Also I visit family and friends in Japan every year and I plan on trying some Backun barrels and bells, among others, while I'm in Tokyo. So if anybody has any recommendations for mouthpieces or barrels either here in the States or in Japan, that would be greatly appreciated since I'd like try as many things as possible before i make any final decisions.
Thanks!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-05-05 21:16
Do you take lessons? If you have performance ambitions, you certainly should.
Have your teacher play your setup. Does s(he) find anything that needs improvement?
What you have is perfectly good, and really better than good, but you should get something better than the stock mouthpiece. There are many good Vandoren designs. I hate stuffiness too. The 5RV Lyre works great for me, but YMMV.
Learn to play your best on what you have. When you get to a conservatory, your teacher there will have strong ideas on equipment. I would hold off big-dollar purchases such as a Backun bell at least until then.
Ken Shaw
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-05-05 21:32
I'm a high school senior going into clarinet performance next year at a university here in southern California. Ultimately you have to find what works for you, which could be very different than what works for anyone on this BBoard, but I can suggest some mouthpieces/barrels/bells I've liked. (I'm also suspecting that there could be aspects of my setup that I'll change while at school.)
As Ken Shaw mentioned, a better mouthpiece will make the biggest difference of any of these things by far, so I would focus mostly on finding a good mouthpiece. Barrels and bells might help, but they really shouldn't be holding you back from getting a sound you like.
I play a Clark Fobes CF mouthpiece and my teacher plays a CWF (which I also used to play for a few years). They are excellent mouthpieces, I would definitely recommend them. I've heard great things about Hawkins mouthpieces as well, but I've never tried them. Some of the Vandoren mouthpieces are good too, I've played an M13 Lyre and an M15. Usually you can order a few mouthpieces on trial from online music stores, and return the ones you don't like.
As far as barrels go, it sort of depends on what kind of sound you're trying to get. You also have to take into consideration how long the barrel is and how it affects the intonation across the instrument.
I've played/tried Moennig, Fobes, and Backun barrels. A good Moennig barrel really focuses the sound, and Fobes barrels are similar. The Backun MoBa barrel I tried allowed for a significantly darker and more diffuse sound (not the sound I'm going for, but if you like that kind of sound, go for it.) I'm currently using Moennig barrels.
I used to think there was no way the bell could make much of a difference, but I was able to compare my stock Buffet bell and a MoBa bell a few weeks ago, and the difference was pretty striking. In contrast to the MoBa barrel, I found that the MoBa bell actually allowed for more projection/focus on the long tube notes, and the other people listening agreed. The difference was not worth the $1350 price tag of buying a set for my A/Bb clarinets, though, so I'm sticking to the stock bell.
Post Edited (2016-05-05 21:34)
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Author: wtalcroft
Date: 2016-05-05 22:15
Ken Shaw: Yes I do! I've been studying with my teacher since about 4th grade. And you're right come to think of it, after getting my clarinet I don't think I've ever had him play it. I will definitely do that when I see him next week. And yes definitely I'm very grateful to be able to play with the set up I have, but I agree the stock mouthpiece isn't always great.
Yes I agree with that too, the main reason I wanted to test barrels and bells is because I've never really experimented with them, and I was more than anything, just curious to see how much a barrel or a bell could change a clarinets sound. So yeah, I probably won't be making any purchases, but just to see what they're capable of how my preferences might be when it comes time to make a purchase. Thank you for you very helpful feedback!
Post Edited (2016-05-05 22:27)
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Author: wtalcroft
Date: 2016-05-05 22:39
maxopf: oh that's great! Yes I understand. Well any suggestions as to what might be worth trying to great so thank you!
Yes I agree. A mouthpiece I will definitely be getting soon, but the barrels and bells, as I mentioned above is probably more of an experimental thing for me to see what woods and shapes will change the tone of my clarinet.
I see. Yes I'd love to try some Fobes mouthpieces sometime. And oh that's good to know. Does this mean though that once I order a handful, I have to buy one that I like, or can I send all of them back if I don't like any..? Sorry I'm not quite how that works.
That's very good to know since I love a dark and round tone. And yes I agree I never knew a bell could be so influential to the sound. This is all very helpful, and like I said I'll probably just try all these and others when I can and just get an idea of what works best for me! Thank you for your feedback!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-05-06 01:20
My suggestion: settle on a mouthpiece you're comfortable with and stay with the barrel and bell that came with the Privilege.
Unless you have a specific issue that you want to solve with a replacement barrel or bell, the ones that are part of the instrument's design are perfectly good - especially since you've described the instrument itself as "a beautiful instrument."
You'll get a lot more bang for the buck from a mouthpiece, but you will never find the perfect one no matter how many you try or how many years you look for it. Your tastes will change and your needs will change. Settle on one that you like and just play. There will be plenty of time later to explore when you have a better idea of what you're looking for.
Karl
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2016-05-06 04:05
You can send the mouthpieces back if you don't like them, or keep one you like.
If you want to try Fobes's mouthpieces, you'll need to order them from one of his distributors, as he doesn't allow for returns if you purchase directly from him.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-05-06 04:12
If you are planning to attend a good college or conservatory, keep in mind that one big mistake that Richie Hawley and other great teachers have noted in auditions is that the player has piled up so much equipment, hoping to make the sound "dark and round," that most of the overtones have been dampened out and the result is a non-impressive, inexpressive and unmusical dullness. If you add a dark ligature to a dark mouthpiece, to a dark barrel and a dark bell, your listeners just might have to shine a flashlight on the tone to detect it! Whatever you do, keep a strong overtone profile with lots of partials in it and a good ring.
Some roundness and darkness is ok, but it should just be part of the overall sound. If you find yourself unable to make a good crescendo and diminuendo on notes throughout the clarinet range, then you have probably overdone the darkness and roundness. The same holds true if you find yourself running out of air in long phrases. Try playing the solos from the Pines of Rome, the Rachmaninoff 2nd piano concerto and 2nd Symphony, and the Schubert Unfinished Symphony. You don't want to be too very dark and round on those. You want an extended, vibrant, singing sound, with just enough darkness and roundness not to be unpleasant. That kind of sound is most likely to get you into a good college or conservatory music program.
Post Edited (2016-05-06 04:15)
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2016-05-06 18:45
Something I've noticed over the years is that while nearly all good players invest plenty of time and money in mouthpieces, reeds, and whatnot, the very best players in the world sound like themselves on just about any setup. They may not be comfortable, but they somehow make the sound that they expect to hear. I contrast that with the player trapped in the equipment vortex, always expecting the next mouthpiece to fix the articulation, or the barrel to increase projection, or the bell to add warmth.
A colleague of mine tells of his teacher through high school, a remarkably fine player and respected pedagogue, who played a Vandoren B45. He would play one mouthpiece for a few years, until wear tilted the rails too much, then he would order another. And play that one until he felt it was worn. My colleague did the same and didn't realize there was another way until he went off to conservatory and discovered that the other students and his teacher had chedevilles, lelandais, Kaspars. He was amazed, and elated at the possibilities offered by these magic mouthpieces, and on his next visit home he asked his teacher, "these mouthpieces make such a difference, why didn't you tell me?"
His teacher said, "Ehh, it's a mouthpiece. You depend on it too much, what do you do when it wears out or you break it? Much better just to practice."
For what it's worth.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-05-06 20:24
Your new Selmer has received great reviews, and I would think that there should be no need for barrel hunting, just yet. I agree with the above post on Clark Fobes mouthpieces, as I use both the CWF and the CF+, depending on style & type of ensemble. I also love my Grabner K14 for the really "beefy" gigs. To me - the "big three" to try are Fobes, Grabner & Smith. Settle down with a proper mouthpiece, give it time, then think about barrels, although I'll bet after settling on a professional custom mouthpiece, your desire for a barrel will have vanished.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2016-05-09 09:50
I personally would NOT use a Moennig barrel on a Selmer clarinet. He designed them for Buffet bores. although he did make a few exceptions and made a very few barrels for the Selmer's when Anthony Gigliotti was with Philly. The Selmer bores were much larger. Anthony, Tony, played the 9 series then the 10 series Selmers then his 10G designed series.
As for mouthpieces wait until college. Your sound is still developing. Mouthpieces can cost a lot of money. It's kind of like clarinets lately. The very expensive Backun horns can cost well over $9300. The new Buffet Devine horns cost about the same, however a lot of the players that are Backun fans have sold them for the Buffet Devine horns. I'm not promoting either company. I'm not happy with my Bb R13 but I really like the A R13. So sometime this year I will be getting a new Bb. My point hear is save your money for now. If the Selmer is that resistant consider getting rid of it and not spending a lot of money with added attachments that may not work. It simply could be a stuffy horn.
Even the great Bob Marcellus switched around his mouthpieces. He probably had 75 around for his students and himself. Harold Wright bought new horns at least every 8 to 10 years. Both played R13's. Then there is Iggie Gennusa who perhaps had the finest sound of all, or at least equal to Harold and Bob, played on mid 1960's clarinets and never changed. Same with his Chedeville mouthpiece until he dropped it and broke it. I have it now and fixed it, but I like my mouthpieces a shade better. Both Harold and Iggie played double lip with facings around 1.03. Now a lot of pro's are playing on facings as open as 1.20 with 5 strength reeds. I'm not sure why, however this is why you should wait. Times are changing fast. There are so many schools of thought right now, depending on the pro that you decide to study with.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2016-05-09 20:58
Ignace Gennusa did get a round, liquid sound from his Buffet R13, without using exotic wood barrels and bells or dark ligatures. Some samples of his sound are provided here http://rharl25.wix.com/clarinetcentral#!ignatius-gennusa/cuvg especially in the Pastorale Variee by Paul Ben-Haim.
Bob Bernardo, is Gennusa posing in the big photo with one of the mouthpieces you designed that says "made in USA?"
Post Edited (2016-05-09 21:19)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2016-05-09 21:14
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> I personally would NOT use a Moennig barrel on a Selmer
> clarinet. He designed them for Buffet bores. although he did
> make a few exceptions and made a very few barrels for the
> Selmer's when Anthony Gigliotti was with Philly. The Selmer
> bores were much larger. Anthony, Tony, played the 9 series then
> the 10 series Selmers then his 10G designed series.
>
I was studying with him in the late sixties and early '70s (with a three year break for the Army Field Band) and I never saw him playing a Selmer until he started working with them on what became the 10G. He played Buffet R13s before that, AFAIK. To the extent that when he started playing the 10Gs publicly in Philadelphia he covered the trademarks with black tape so, if Moennig happened to be in the audience, it wouldn't be so obvious what the instrument was.
Karl
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