 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ClarinettyBetty
Date: 2016-03-28 17:11
Hello,
After much consideration, I have decided to search for a "Golden Era" Buffet R13 instead of overhauling and replating my current 2007 model. I have played two horns; a 1965 model and an earlier '58 model, both of which were absolutely amazing--"like butter," is the only way I can describe the feel. I know I am looking for that "feel," and of course good tuning, intonation, etc.
However, I have been warned by friends and colleagues to watch out for older horns that have been "blown out," or "played out." I am wondering, what does that feel like/sound like?
I don't believe I have ever experienced that (I am a band director and have tried many students' horns, play-tested school horns in the back room, etc), but I don't know if I have actually known I was playing a "blown out" horn or if I just was feeling "yuck, this one doesn't feel like my comfortable R13."
How does one tell if an older horn is "blown out?"
Thank you.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2016-03-28 17:34
For many us the term "blown out" simply means in need of a restoration. Generally anything you find that is wrong with an instrument can be fixed. I've fixed and played instruments dating all the way back to the 1820s and have yet to find one that has been played beyond repair. As long as the instrument you are looking at has been repaired well you should end up with a good horn.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: GBK
Date: 2016-03-28 17:37
I'll take a "Golden Era" Buffet R13 any day of the week over today's sloppily made, poorly designed R13's with inferior, third-tier under aged wood.
I'm not a believer in clarinets being 'blown out' since the minute differences and changes of an older clarinet are so small that the average player can not tell.
If you feel that your older clarinet is not playing as well as when it was first purchased, I always advise replacing the barrel, which just may add a few more decades to an otherwise great horn.
...GBK (who owns more than 10 "Golden Era" R13's between 1964 - 1973)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-03-28 17:53
"Blown out" is a marketing term used by unscrupulous sellers of new instruments to make you think you need to buy a new instrument when yours is fine (but could do with some work to make it better).
I've owned, played and restored a lot of older instruments and to my knowledge none of them can be described as 'blown out'
It's just a term someone coined up to strike fear in players to convince the gullible they need to buy the latest thing and their instruments are past their best if they're over two years old.
So take it with a massive pinch of salt if someone tries to convince (or B.S.) you that your clarinet (or oboe, etc.) is 'blown out' and you have to buy something they're peddling that's of lower quality but with a hugely inflated price.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2016-03-28 18:45
A "blown out" instrument, is one which bore and/or tone holes have changed shape significantly. This can happen for a number of reasons, but if the resistance of the clarinet feels comfortable to you and the scale is in tune within your tolerance, then why worry?
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-03-28 20:17
I'm with Chris on this. While instruments can be in poor condition due to mechanical wear, damage or lack of proper maintenance its rare to come across one which is beyond recovery due to playing it too much. It can happen, but its not common. I have several instruments which are over a century old and which probably still play as well or better than when they were originally made. At least 2 of these have had a working lifetime of professional playing behind them before I acquired them.
Tony F.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-03-28 20:19
Harold Wright used this description in an interview. Or maybe just "blown", meaning essentially the same thing - which he didn't specifically define. I've come to think in terms of Sylvain's reply above, where so Wright grew uncomfortable in achieving his sound or perfect intonation with some particular instrument(s). I believe there is at least one lengthy discussion about this in the archives of this board.
Incidentally, I once met a gentleman in Brattleboro, Vt, a jazz player who said the instrument he used was Harold Wright's former clarinet - and he loved it.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-03-28 22:14
Here's that interview:
http://www.wgbh.org/article/?item_id=1840844
Wright preferred used instruments I think he said in this talk. But I'm not so sure it was for "Golden Era reasons."
"Blown out" is not only a subjective term but one on which players question its meaning or existence. Further still, it's questionable that the process of blowing air through the instrument over many years remains the best (or sole) causal agent for dimension changes to an instrument that make blowing through it "too easy for it to play well, and/or affect sound or intonation"--my informal definition of same.
To some extent, a clarinet needs to "fight back" against the flow of your air.
Nobody (well almost nobody https://youtu.be/6zIOoaq_vbc?t=4m12s ) could play a clarinet with no mouthpiece and reed because among other scientific reasons, the air flows too freely.
We all get our resistance from somewhere, says Richard Hawley.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=374542&t=374542
Some get it in more open mouthpieces and/or harder reeds and/or their instrument. As an example of the latter, I sight with praise Tom Ridenour's clarinets (in addition to a host of other reasons).
I agree with Glenn that today's non-greeline R13's are not made as well as those of Buffet's golden era, but believe the difference lies mostly in the wood, which affects the craftsmanship, but not the craftsmanship itself. This may be a pedantic difference, but it's too say that I think Buffet would do better with better availability of good African Blackwood--which sadly is in short supply. And it's not their lathes, boring, drilling, or attaching of keys to the instrument were incompetencies mostly lie (I think).
Buffet admits that one has to purchase a Prestige model or higher to get the grade of wood that originally came with the R13.
I don't mean to imply the the Greenline side of Buffet's business is better (or isn't). Bob Spring plays greenline instruments. Others report varied reviews of them.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-03-28 22:19
If I were to adopt Harold Wright's alleged definition, "Wright grew uncomfortable in achieving his sound or perfect intonation with some particular instrument(s)", then every instrument I own is blown out.
Or maybe I just lack talent? Inconceivable!
I agree with Chris P. "Blown out" is one of the many marketing tools used to stimulate the economy with unnecessary sales of new instruments.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2016-03-28 22:27
Well, I have a pair of Buffets from 1912 and 1921 that have been used a lot by the previous owner and myself that play just great. The silver plating also shows no wear. Good maintenance is important.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-03-29 01:29
David, my post may have been unclear, my apologies. Now you seem to have confused Harold Wright with me. While I'm happy to take whatever I can get, you may wish to minimize public recurrences of that misidentification. :-)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2016-03-29 10:55
I know of more "blown out" players than I do of instruments. :-)
--
Ben
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-03-30 00:43
no animals Harold Wright's, or their likeness, or anybody else for that matter were harmed confused in the making of my comments. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-03-30 05:24
Yes, WhitePlainsDave, never confuse the animals, LOL. However, I was previously replying to David Spiegelthal. Since my every utterance seems only to provoke greater confusion, it appears time to tail my verbal cur.
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Author: sarawashere
Date: 2016-03-31 06:48
My clarinet is a 1955 R13 and I personally love her. I had to get her majorly overhauled, but after that all was well!
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Author: ClarinettyBetty
Date: 2016-03-31 18:34
Thank you all for your responses! I will try the horns and think about what the "feel" is, versus too much mechanism. Mechanism stuff can be fixed, pads can be replaced, but the sound has to be--"this is THE one!"
I feel more comfortable with my search!
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2016-03-31 19:35
"Blown out" may have been first used by a player trying to convince a non-playing spouse why the player needs an expensive new instrument when they already have an old instrument.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2016-04-01 03:36
Of course, WhitePlains' link is to a "photo shopped" image. As though that particular bodybuilder, Marcus Ruhl I believe, would need any enhancement to look freakish - he's already one of the larger men in that sport.
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Author: RefacerMan
Date: 2016-04-01 07:13
"Blown Out" usually means that a clarinet that was previously very resonant and even has now lost much of its "working resistance". As a result certain notes will sound buzzy and loose and will "jump out" when you try to slur to them. In addition, it will take much more effort to hold the sound together and get a nice center to the sound. Some clarinets break-in nicely and hold on to their working resistance and other clarinets as they age get looser and looser playing. New clarinets have a nice crispness to the sound. As a clarinet breaks in the crispness diminishes and a warmth and resonance increases. Sometimes this goes too far and you have a clarinet with lots of warmth but not a lot of core. The clarinet sounds vague and "hummy". Those are some of the signs of a blown out clarinet. Clarinets made out of very good resilient wood usually do not blow out.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2016-04-01 12:11
All the more reason to avoid Clarinets made out of the modern less denser African black wood of various types. The really good quality 'hefty' mpingo/ granadilla wood is now almost depleted. Recently I had an old 'stencil' Bb Clarinet to repair for a student. It had ARTCRAFT stamped on it and it was remarkable how heavy it was compared to the modern 'quality' black wood Clarinets
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2016-04-01 12:13)
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