 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-06-17 15:00
Have in for overhaul (read restoration) a Boehm clarinet with stamps of Henry Gunkel Paris
Both joints and bell are marked with this logo which is very similar shape to Buffet.
Barrel so badly cracked and badly repaired in past that no marks visible.
Both body sections have marks B LP and France but there is no serial number on either section.
It's appearance screams out Buffet but it must be quite early as following features exist.
- A & Ab keys screw into common pillar
- LH E/B & F#/C# levers mounted on single concentric pivot screw
- Speaker key spirals around body and large metal speaker vent on top side with virtually no tube protruding into bore
- Bore essentially parallel (though some distortion)
- Upper joint bore approx 14.6/14.7mm - lower joint 14.8mm at start
- Barrel (though cracked and warped) exhibits very steep reverse cone
- C#/G# tonehole rim is surface of body (no machined tonehole surface)
- C#/G# spring is the older leaf style
- F#/C# spring is standard style - not like modern Buffet
- virtually all toneholes significantly undercut but RH I/II/III very much so
- virgin nickel silver keys, unplated
(added in edit)
- sculpted recesses cut under RH pinky keys
- trill key guide is pressed nickel with a diamond profile base
- fitted with fork Eb/Bb mech that is pinned inline on single rod i.e like flute mech.
Henry Gunkel is obviously just a stencil name but whether for USA only or more widely spread I don't know. From spelling I suspect USA only.
A search on this board has produced very little info - anyone knowledgeable about these instruments and/or the "maker"? Is it actually Buffet? Any idea of date?
Post Edited (2011-06-17 22:53)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-06-17 15:39
Gunckel, right? Old, and yes it's a stencil. Had a few around here some years back, ca. early 1900s. Remember that back then Buffet was just another one of the many small-to-medium instrument makers in the La Couture area, who mostly shared the same specialist craftsmen between them (bore reamers, key forgers, etc.). In other words, the pre-13 Buffets are nothing special and are indistinguishable from most other brands and stencils of that era. It never ceases to amaze me how people with an old clarinet try to establish some connection with Buffet, as if it means something special.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-06-17 15:41
Could it be a Couesnon? They had the non countersunk C#/G# tonehole which is nothing short of being a pain in the proverbial (and I've recut them to be able to seat a cork pad on them).
Selmer also had the same 'feature' on some of their earlier clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-06-17 20:24
Many of the earlier clarinets had a simple non-countersunk hole (yes, with the curved surface contour of the outer body) and can be made to seal with a cork pad, or it's easy enough to use a Forstner bit to counterbore the hole for a more 'modern' installation. I don't think the simple hole necessarily identifies the clarinet as a Couesnon product.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-06-17 20:58
If ever I could get to grips this new fangled technology I would try to post a few photos!
I retired from computer industry just 20 years ago after 30 years on those beasts and don't have much enthusiasm for them now.
Warning "War Story" -- one of the machines I worked on during it's build in 1966 had far far less memory and much slower processors than even your average PC today and yet 3 years later that same machine guided those astronauts to their first ever moon landing. We just had programmers a wee bit smarter than those at microsoft it seems!
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2011-06-19 22:43
Norman: Henry Gunkel was definitely a trade name used by Buffet. Ken Shaw had a post on here some years back on identifying older Buffets - yours fits the description to a T. These old Buffets are virtually indistinguishable from some Couesnons of the same era. So I guess it's possible that Buffet made horns for Couesnon or that Couesnon made horns for Buffet back then.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-06-20 20:13
Thanks for the info Chris, the more I work on this horn the more convinced I am it most likely is Buffet. The main factor however with this instrument is that, inspite of it's poor current condition, the owner really liked what he found when he played it so definitely wanted it put back into really good order.
I do appreciate that Buffet itself is not a magic name (runs for cover) and only 3 of my 12 or more personal collection are Buffet (1963 R13 and pair of 1973 S1s). I firmly believe that Buffet made some fine instruments well before the R13 appeared, one only has to listen to any pre 1950 recordings to appreciate that. Now in many European countries the RC and other variants outsell the R13 by quite a margin.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-11-30 19:18
I'll buy that Henry Gunckel is a Stencil name- their appearance resembles different brands at different times. I'm looking at pics. of one now that more resembles an Auguste Buffet than a Buffet Crampon. It must be an old name, as I have seen pictures of a boxwood 19th c. clarinet with the stamp. I agree with David S., there seems to be an extreme similarity between French Boehm clarinets in the 1880s-1930s. As suggested, it is obvious they had a lot of shared resources at the very least! Also, none of my clarinets from that era have a countersunk C#/G# tonehole- Buffet Crampon, J.T.L., Couesnon, Edmond Chedeville.
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Author: TAS
Date: 2014-02-21 19:05
I think many really old clarinets are not worth re-building for every day use. Really old for me is pre-1930.
Then again, many brand new clarinets are not worth building, either.
TAS
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2015-09-18 18:53
Just found a Henry Gunckel with "Germany" on it- very Germanic keywork and fittings. Stencil brand and nothing to do with Buffet Crampon I say.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2015-09-19 21:42
The serial number off Gunkel I have somewhere had put it in 1930-1932 frame when it was cross-referenced using Buffet serial numbers. From what I recall it made sense since Buffet stopped making wrap-around key about the same time; so they may have gotten rid of inventory on wholesale market.
Not sure if Henry Gunkel was an importer, distributor or brass manufacturer who was exchanging his brass with Buffet for woodwinds. I think I found a reference to H Gunkel trade name registered in France, so if it were a distributor it wasn't an american one.
Thanks for posting updates. I need to restore mine at some point.
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2015-09-20 17:46
I have a "would need a lot of work to play" metal Henry Gunckel Paris clarinet. It makes a nice lamp.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2015-09-23 03:33
Silversourcerer wrote:
"As far as the Buffet connection goes, take a close look at the spiral register. This key is not going to be any different on Boehm or Albert clarinets. It's the same on the two Gunckels (with a "c") that I have. Right where the the thumb tab bends into the spiral you see it is smooth. On Buffet that turn has a sharp point that curves slightly out before it turns into the spiral. I don't think these are Buffets."
You mean like this?
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2015-09-23 03:44
Attachment: Gunckel02a.jpg (1042k)
And yes it is Boehm Henry Gunckel.
From what I've seen Buffet Alberts had a different bent, mainly b/c they were made 30-50 years prior.
Post Edited (2015-09-23 03:47)
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2015-09-24 02:59
I am not sure but don't think this one is Couesnon. Couesnon stopped making wrap-around boehms somewhere around 1900; at least according to catalogs I've seen. To me Gunckel looked like it was made later, and serial number matched to Buffet ~1931-33, give or take. Right after when wrap register key disappeared from Buffet line up.
It came in plastic Vito case, and it looks like it was used back in early 60s, with cheap plastic MPC of that era. So I'd guess it was estate sale. Most likely 2nd owner just recently kicked bucket. There were dents on the bell from trying to hammer nail, and the barrel was cracked and repaired with shellac (looked to me like repair was at least 50 years old).
I'd guess that the instrument was repaired and purchased for a child back in late 50s or in 60s used a little and than was stored in the attic. Got on eBay off estate sale.
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2015-09-29 20:30
I suppose it could be a Buffet. BTW, I just saw a Henry Gunckel with Czechoslovakia on it.
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