 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: as9934
Date: 2015-08-09 06:39
In previous years during band camp our band director has given the clarinet section time to work on various issues we may have encountered in the music or in general. So I went to ask him if we could have some sectional time to work out issues I observed in the rising freshmen (thin, weak, sound and consequent tuning problems) and he said he hadn't planned on it. I said to him that sectionals had been very helpful to me when I was a young student along with being given complicated music to play in concert band. What followed next was a fairly heated debate about having sectional time in which he refused to listen to me. He said the only reason he MIGHT give us sectional time is if there was a "section in the music that warranted it" These kids can't play a good strong whole note much less a complicated passage in the music. My section leader and I really care about making the the section better, but without time to individually address issues we aren't sure how we can achieve that goal. I don't want to be in constant conflict with my band director, but I believe in helping my section grow into the talented young clarinetist I know they can be. What do you guys think?
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: GBK
Date: 2015-08-09 07:28
Suck it up, put on your big boy pants, and follow his wishes. When and if you ever become a band director, you can do with your sections as you please.
It's only high school - In the big picture of things, it's relatively meaningless.
Practice your own part. Play it to the best of your ability and stop worrying about everybody else.
It's not your job.
...GBK
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2015-08-09 08:32
I agree with GBK. Don't be a distraction. If you're truly concerned about your band let the director do his job, and you do yours. Play your part. The last thing this director needs is some student attempting to undermine what he's trying to accomplish.
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Author: brianhjazz
Date: 2015-08-09 10:14
From my observations/experience with both HS and college level groups, I have seen many cases where rehearsal time is set aside for sectional time and the section leaders/sections simply use it as "chat and hang out" time. I'm not saying that this would be the case with your section, or even all of the other sections in your band, but I would wager that it is quite likely.
I wonder if this is why your director has chosen to eliminate sectional time in favor of large group rehearsal time? Most likely the new clarinets will make progress simply from playing in rehearsal, but if not I would also put faith in your director that he will notice their weaknesses and address them appropriately. I would also guess that the freshman clarinets are not the only new players to the band that are in the same boat, so my advice is just be patient with it and the problems will most likely work themselves out, whether it happens via sectionals or some other form of instructional time.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-08-09 10:21
I wouldn't couch this in the same way.
My advice to students on any musical issues worked out in lessons is this: Despite what we worked on, whatever your music director wants is what you must do.
The point is that to have a unified product, everyone must look to one entity for the final verdict on pretty much everything. Not doing things this way leads to chaos and less unity of interpretation.
There may be other reasons for this decision from you director, but if more full band time is what is called for as the priority then that is what it needs to be.
Honestly though if you all feel strongly about it, find time on your own (away from school) to get together and smooth out intonation and articulation issues. A truly improved product WILL be noticed and it may give you more leverage to negotiate school time for this endeavor in the future.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-08-09 17:52
I'd agree with Glenn and the others who say you should respect your band director's decision and let him assess the situation day-to-day. Especially since he isn't a new band director and has provided sectional time in the past, this change surely has a reason, whether or not it's one he has shared with you.
It isn't ever a student's place to get into a "heated debate" with a teacher about anything.
Karl
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Author: runner
Date: 2015-08-09 18:20
I would form an optional sectional my own. As the clarinet section leader of a top college band 48 years ago, I would not think of it since everyone could handle the music. There was no need. If the need exists, practice your leadership skills. Try to find a retired teacher to help.
By the way, what is your director's primary instrument?
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2015-08-09 19:05
This a group of people with a common aim. In my experience a group of people who do the wrong thing, but do it all together, achieve more than a group of people all doing different things. And when they realise they're doing the wrong thing, which normally do sooner or later, they can normally change direction relatively easily. This is the essence of an organisation. My advice would be to follow the director and trust their judgement. They may after all have different goals to you - they have the whole band to think of, and need to navigate any political choppy waters on the way
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-08-09 19:05
Realize that some battles aren't worth fighting and recognize a lost cause when you see it. If the mere suggestion of sectionals is met with dismay by your conductor, let it go and get on with your life.
That said, it seems to me that in a band camp environment, an off-hour could be electively utilised to meet as a section.
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Author: runner
Date: 2015-08-09 19:32
I applaud the efforts and desires to achieve "ownership" in your group. As long as you are not changing the final tempi, dynamics (are there any real dynamics in marching band?) or rhythms, hold your own. The director ,in a triage situation, will focus more on percussion and brass. A lot of bands in my area ask clarinets to switch to instruments like mellophone during marching season.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-08-09 19:33
My high school band director was a wonderful person, and he was the one who influenced me to make music a career. He was a very solid musician, but we didn't always see eye to eye. Still, I knew not to second guess him, and we got along very well. You made your opinion known to your band director and that's fine, but please don't don't say any more. Nothing good will come from it.
You mentioned complicated passages in the music. Since most high school marching bands admit students regardless of playing ability, some of the younger band members might not be able to handle these passages. I know you're frustrated and want to help. Perhaps you could make an informal offer to assist those who feel they need it before rehearsals start in the morning.
It sounds like your school has a good band program. Marching bands, pep bands, and jazz bands are wonderful (I enjoyed all three in high school), but concert bands should be the core of high school programs. If one of your goals is to address tone quality or other basic playing issues, concert band (or symphony band or wind ensemble) is the best place to do it.
Post Edited (2015-08-09 19:38)
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2015-08-10 01:28
Two things.
1) I am not surprised that the conductor would not give "school time" to have sectionals. In any group that I've played, sectionals, when required, were always held "after hours." After school in high school, apart from the main rehearsals, but never in substitution, in other settings. So in that regard, I agree with everything said above. But is there anything stopping you from staying, for instance, on a Tuesday afternoon after school and rehearsing as a section for an hour?
2) Be very, very careful how you treat your director and fellow section clarinetists. Statements like "These kids can't play a good strong whole note much less a complicated passage in the music," while I understand you were trying to make a point, can indicate a demeaning attitude toward your colleagues. If you had sectionals would they be able to respond musically to your instruction? There must, must, must be mutual respect between you and your section mates as well as between you and your director. Lead with humility and strength.
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Author: as9934
Date: 2015-08-10 05:32
@brianhjazz I find it a bit insulting to think that you think I would just waste time and "hang out" during any sectional I would have. But I do understand why you would think that and it has been known to happen.
As to your second point he IS neglecting sectionals for large group rehearsals. My only qualm with that is that we work on the music for almost 6 hours every day 5 days a week in addition to any take home practice one may or may not do so I would have hope to have seen at least a nominal improvement in sound but so far nothing. I honestly don't think we need any more group rehearsal time.
@Paul_Aviles I like the idea of sectionals before and/or after rehearsals but I'm not sure they will go for it. We are at band camp for eight hours every weekday so the likelihood they will want to play more is slim. But we will try it and see. Maybe in the mornings.
@runner My band director plays the baritone. One of the reasons I sometimes question his judgement is because sometimes he says stupidly wrong things about clarinets and clarinet playing. He said the other day one of the new freshman should go out and buy a box of Vandoren Blue Box 3.5 despite the fact that it was clear she was struggling on a Rico 3. When I reasonably pointed out that I play on 3 reeds and they work just fine he said "oh that explains a lot" in a very sarcastic tone. Never mind the fact that some mouthpieces are not designed to accommodate a 3.5, especially not these stock buffet mouthpieces that they are playing on (I say mouthpiece in the loosest sense of the word) He says things like this often honestly because I think it is what he has heard from other wrong people. These are very easy things to address in sectional time and part of the reason why I want to have it.
@clarinetist04 I do not intend to be insulting in any way in my comments I simply wish to help. It is my opinion (and probably many of yours) that a good strong sound is one of the first things to develop in a young clarinetist. Our band director also clearly knows this, or at least he used to. My freshman year he hired a professional woodwind teacher to help us with the music and with developing good habits. We would have sectionals with for one to two hours every day. I attribute that to be part of my success as a clarinetist and I simply want the same opportunity for these kids as I had. You mention mutual respect. I respect him and his opinion so I'm not going to confront him any further. But I don't think he honestly respects my opinion and that is something I find troubling.
To all of you who simply said to "suck it up because he is the band director" your comments are not really particularly helpful. Band directors are not some sort of omnipotent being nor are they always right.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
Post Edited (2015-08-10 05:57)
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-08-10 06:37
If you really want something done then do it by yourself on your own time else your gonna have to suck it up because the band director is your superiour and it doesn't matter if your boss is right
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-08-10 06:47
While it's true that band directors are not always right, you might seriously think about finding someplace else to play if you've reached the point of going on a public forum and talking ill of yours, especially when you identify your school in your signature. That is not the action of a respectful band member.
That said, the faults I found in my high school band director were one of the things that made me think I might be able to do a good job of it someday. I knew that I didn't know everything, or even much of anything at that age, but this person's qualities both good and not so good made me want to give it a try. I'm glad I did!
It's amazing how much more respect I have for this person years later. I was lucky to have a really good band director though, and I did realize it at the time. I didn't get everything I wanted in high school band, but I got most of what I needed (as the song says).
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-08-10 07:47
as9934 wrote:
> To all of you who simply said to "suck it up because he is the
> band director" your comments are not really particularly
> helpful. Band directors are not some sort of omnipotent being
> nor are they always right.
>
And high school students, even ones who are good players, don't always know all that they think they know about a situation.
Karl
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-08-10 07:51
Ari, I can understand your frustration. I think the issue goes way beyond clarinet sectionals. The issue is that your band director really doesn't understand clarinet issues and is giving faulty advice, especially his advice about reeds. You really care and want him to see the light, but he doesn't seem to be interested.
I was a band teacher in public schools for many years, but I'm doing other things now. I currently teach private lessons, and have students who sometimes get very questionable advice from their band teachers who are mostly brass players. It does frustrate me too.
I know it's hard, but please take a few minutes to see things from your teacher's point of view. In order for a person to become a certified school music teacher, he or she must cover an incredible amount of material in college. He or she takes private lessons on a primary instrument every semester. There are also music theory, history, literature, conducting, and ensemble requirements. Of course, there are also courses in how to teach music, and courses on the various instruments. When a new music teacher graduates from college, he or she is expected to be an expert in everything from teaching kindergarten general music to middle school orchestra to high school marching band. As you can probably guess, it's hard to be a complete expert in everything. I spent most of my teaching career in music rooms, but I have taught other things too. I'll say this: teaching music in a band or orchestra setting is very hard. It's difficult to teach math, science, and the other subjects, but teaching music is harder. There are so many things to deal with--a stuck trumpet valve, a snare drummer who just can't get the rhythm right, a flute pad that's coming out, a clarinet cork that's coming off, an alto sax that can't play a low B-flat because a pad is leaking, sheet music that's been lost . . . I think you get the idea!
Your band director might be under a lot of stress for an additional reason. You've probably read about the incredible pressures public school teachers are facing today. That's a discussion for another time, but you can look it up if you haven't heard. Stagnant salaries, budget cuts, loss of tenure protection, etc. are all items that are causing teachers to retire early or leave the profession. Attacks on public school teachers from self-serving politicians don't help. Fine arts programs in some places are being cut because of demands for higher scores on standardized tests.
Speaking from many years of experience, you'll deal with situations in life that are a lot more frustrating than this one. I could share some stories about one of my college band directors (not good) and some of the administrators I worked with, but this is not the place.
So . . . what should you do? As hard as it is now, don't do much. If you can help some of the others before or after band practice, fine, but if not, don't stress yourself about it. During marching rehearsals, just try to be as cooperative and helpful as you can.
When concert season starts, just keep using the same mouthpiece and reeds that you're using. Don't discuss them with your director, and he probably won't ask. You might want to ask innocently if the professional woodwind teacher can come back for sectionals. If he says "no," don't argue.
One thing that you can do if you want him to have a better understanding of reeds and mouthpieces: contact Vandoren and D'Addario (Rico) and ask them to send you information about their reeds, mouthpieces, and recommended reed/mouthpiece combinations. When your teacher isn't busy--and he's in a good mood--tell him that you wanted to learn more about current products available. Give the information to him, and tell him you're happy to share it with him. It might make a difference, and it might not. That's all you can do. Good luck.
Post Edited (2015-08-10 08:08)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-08-10 12:48
clarinetguy wrote:
> Ari, I can understand your frustration. I think the issue goes
> way beyond clarinet sectionals. The issue is that your band
> director really doesn't understand clarinet issues and is
> giving faulty advice, especially his advice about reeds. You
> really care and want him to see the light, but he doesn't seem
> to be interested.
Ari has said the band director has permitted sectionals in the past. His attitude toward their utility seems to have changed. Maybe he has a reason?
Ari, this sounds like it has become a power issue between you and the band director, so clarinetguy is right that it has gone beyond clarinet sectionals. It should not have come to that, but from your narrative it seems to have. Whatever the specifics of the reed advice incident may have been, at this point anything you do that appears to be an attempt to undermine the band director may be seen by him as insubordination - you should be concerned not to escalate the situation because doing so will not regain his trust. He is certainly not going to give you additional responsibility if he feels threatened or disrespected. Whether or not he should at this point is immaterial - your "heated debate" may well have caused him simply to dig in further.
It isn't so much a question of "sucking it in," but instead one of diplomacy and a sense of proportion. To help the clarinet section, if indeed they're willing to accept your help, you need to gain the director's trust. Since his attitude toward sectionals seems to have changed from previous years, you should probably give him the benefit of the doubt that, if his clarinet knowledge is weak, his understanding of teaching and learning may be stronger and he may have reasons for his change that he doesn't want to share.
Accept the situation as it is for the band camp and, if necessary, for the duration of marching season. If this has become a pure power struggle between you and him, one of you will need to de-escalate it before you can be of any help. In case there is something else underneath his change of policy, the best thing may be to let him follow his plan. If it works and the band performs well, all is good. If it doesn't, he may yet ask for your help, but not if you do something to further inflame the situation.
And remember that high school ends at the end of senior year for you and you'll go on to a new situation and new teachers. Also, that marching band season will end and the concert band is by far the more important musical activity. Save your most intense concern for the important stuff.
Karl
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2015-08-10 12:53
I notice that you sign your posts "2nd Chair, Wind Ensemble".
Are you the designated section leader? Or, have you discussed your concerns with the 1st Chair/Section Leader?
I agree with other posters. It seems you've made your point (and perhaps not in the most diplomatic or respectful way). And despite your good intentions, it's probably time to back off and just handle your own part for now. The current battle sounds counterproductive.
Perhaps chalk it up as a lesson in dealing with bosses and colleagues for your future.
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
Post Edited (2015-08-10 13:19)
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Author: as9934
Date: 2015-08-10 15:28
@slowoldman I am not the section leader but I have some of the same duties and repsonsibilities that he does. We are very good friends and have a very good relationship. He feels exactly the same way I do. We have discussed the situation at legnth and we both feel that some sectional time would be a of great value to the section.
@karl You point out that it is my senior year. This is another reason why I want sectionals. This is my last year with this band and I want the band, and specifically the clarinet section to be the best it can be. I would like to leave the band knowing that I made a positive impact on younger clarinet players, and didn't just simply play my part and keep to myself. I will not be perusing the issue any further but I hope you can see now what some of my motivations are.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: sax panther
Date: 2015-08-10 17:55
as an English member of this forum, I've not experienced this problem that seems to appear frequently on the board of band directors forcing certain favoured bits of equipment on members of the band playing instruments which the director has little knowledge of.
I've not so long ago played in school orchestras, county orchestras, university orchestras, wind bands etc, and not once has a conductor tried to press the same mouthpiece/reeds etc on the musicians...yet on here I see stories of "my band director is a trombonist and insists that the whole clarinet section must use a buffet R13, and a vandoren 5RV with a 3.5 reed" for example. Currently, I play in a very good wind band where the conductor is primarily a trumpeter. He'll offer detailed technical advice to the trumpets, and to a lesser extent, the other brass intruments, but he limits his advice/requests to the woodwind section to breathing/phrasing.
So in the UK, band directors/conductors are happy to leave matters of equipment to the musician and their teacher. I wonder why it's different the other side of the Atlantic? Are all band directors like this?
apologies for going slightly off topic..."Help! Band director doesn't understand the value of sectionals!"...That's slightly harsh on him based on what you've described. He's explained the circumstances in which he'd want sectionals (difficult sections of music) and doesn't feel like they'd be of benefit on this occasion. If he'd refused to ever entertain sectional rehearsals before then I'd agree that he was being stubborn, but he's done them with your band before. Perhaps he didn't see any improvement when he's tried them previously? As kdk said, maybe he has a reason? If you approach him again without getting into a "heated debate", perhaps he'll explain that reason to you.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-08-10 22:59
sax panther wrote:
> So in the UK, band directors/conductors are happy to leave
> matters of equipment to the musician and their teacher. I
> wonder why it's different the other side of the Atlantic? Are
> all band directors like this?
>
No, but the ones who are tend to be rather dogmatic about it. It's rarely orchestra directors - mostly band directors whose penchant for demanding uniformity in all things gets taken too far.
I don't know enough about Ari's school situation, but many public schools in the U.S. are finding that students are increasingly less likely to have private teachers outside of the school setting. There are a hundred reasons why, but it seems to be a trend. In those cases, leaving equipment advice to a specialist teacher isn't always possible.
Karl
Post Edited (2015-08-11 05:08)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-08-11 01:21
Ari,
A couple of simple questions. What is your level of musical training? Do you understand the pedagogy of the clarinet and can articulate it to others? Do you have a record of success in diagnosing common technical and musical problems like those found in the students who have a "thin, weak sound"?
GBK: a very accomplished former band director as well as an experienced adjudicator gave you some sage advice when he said:
"Suck it up, put on your big boy pants, and follow his wishes. When and if you ever become a band director, you can do with your sections as you please.
It's only high school - In the big picture of things, it's relatively meaningless.
Practice your own part. Play it to the best of your ability and stop worrying about everybody else.
It's not your job."
Keep taking your present, extremely combative tack and you may find yourself in either Mr. Jones' or MS Auten's office. Back off my young friend; you are, as they said back in my day, "crusin' for a bruisin'"
HRL
PS To your comment "Band directors are not some sort of omnipotent being nor are they always right" may I suggest that you include "but they are the director/boss/final word... End of story.
Post Edited (2015-08-11 05:54)
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2015-08-11 01:33
Hummm...
Ari strikes me as a person who just doesn't "throws in the towel" and "go with the flow". I agree ultimately that your band director is your "boss" and makes the final decisions for his program. Yes, you'll have to live with it.
Knowing my personality, this is what I'd do...
Go to his office, privately, and in a beyond respectful tone talk to him. Mention that you're both on the same team and not here to battle one another. You both care and desire the same end result, excellence. Reiterate what you're hearing (I'd bring 1st chair with if possible) and make suggestions. A few minutes with the entire section (team building opportunity?) would make all the world's difference, not only now, but for concert season. If no still, suggestion the section leaders hold a unofficial, yet mandatory get together. Perhaps an assistant can monitor discipline while you guys talk nerdy clarinet stuff (again team building).
Ultimiately, if it falls on deaf ears (I always love when directors tell you "it doesn't matter, nobody can hear it anyway"), then say thank you and go your own away. You have to pick your battles and I suspect marching band isn't good enough to start WWIII.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-08-11 01:56
Robert,
I believe the director already said "No." While Ari and the director may be on the same team, one is in charge and responsible for the welfare and success of the organization (both legally and morally) and the other is not.
HRL
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2015-08-11 03:32
ClarinetRobt wrote:
> If no still, suggestion the section leaders
> hold a unofficial, yet mandatory get together.
I think most people would really get riled then and just tell you to go to hell. Really - some kid tells other kids that something that can't possibly be "mandatory" is mandatory?
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Author: as9934
Date: 2015-08-11 07:31
@Hank_Lehrer "A couple of simple questions. What is your level of musical training? Do you understand the pedagogy of the clarinet and can articulate it to others? Do you have a record of success in diagnosing common technical and musical problems like those found in the students who have a "thin, weak sound"?"
I assume by your questions you are trying to point out that I am just in high school and don't everything about the clarinet. And I will admit that, compared to you guys I know very little. But I don't think it is unfair to say that I know more about the clarinet and clarinet playing than anyone else in my band. And yes I have had some success in sectionals I have helped run in the past. Every time I went out and worked with younger students they came out better than they walked in. I have diagnosed some common problems with young students reasonably well, and would simply like the opportunity to do so once again. Also I' m not sure if if a bit creeped out or impressed that you looked up my principals names, but I can assure that Dean Jones doesn't know the difference between a sectional and a quartet, nor do I think he would care.
@sex_panther I would say that ALL american band directors fit you characterization but many do, including my band director. My freshman year he required us all to go out and buy Vandoren 5RV mouthpieces, Rovner Ligatures and Vandoren Blue Box 3.5 Reeds to play on. He told us to buy a new box of reeds every two months and to move up half a strength every year. It was also implied that once who were good enough, you go out and buy a Buffet R13. Fortunately he has moved past that now, but still I probably wasted at least $120 on these things that I didn't really need. Thank god I found this forum or else I would still be playing on 5RV, struggling against a 4 blue box reed. @GBK and all other band directors I don't mean to be insulting, but this is one of the many instances when my band director was wrong and that is why I take what he says with a grain of salt. I always try to listen to what he says and 99.9% of the time I do it, but I think it is important to step back sometimes and ask "Why?"
As for my characterization of our discussion as a heated debate, that may have been slight hyperbole. I simply asked as to why we not having sectionals this and provided anecdotal reasons why I thought they were valuable to me and other players. I also mentioned that I had learned well when I was given challenging, exciting music like the grade 5 and 6 stuff I was given freshman year an not the grade 3 stuff I was forced to play sophomore year (our band director split the large group into two smaller ensembles my sophomore year, a decision that was very unpopular and that many of us believe made the overall band worse. I was supposedly "randomly" put into the lower concert band, while all my friends were put into the wind ensemble something about which I am still a bit bitter), which I pointed out, didn't make me any better as a musician. The conversation then dissolved into petty squabbles and barbs until I left for the weekend. He didn't mention it today at band camp today and I have decided to let it lie for awhile to be brought up at a later date. But I will still bring it up, perhaps with my section leader David next time, in a better way next time because I still think it is important. Ultimately it is up to him, but that's not going to stop me from trying.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-08-11 08:51
Ari, aren't you the same guy who posted the "Mozart for critique" earlier this summer? If so, I want to tell you that while I really respect your enthusiasm and desire for your band to be the best it can be for everyone involved, you simply don't have the musical credibility at this point to make a valid argument about how music should best be learned.
Here's my advice: 1) Stop trying to change how your director does his job. (The previous paragraph explains one good reason why.) 2) Go back and look carefully at the excellent suggestions that many highly competent people took the time to give you on that previous post, sometimes repeatedly and very patiently when you didn't appear to really be hearing them. 3) Evaluate how well or how poorly you have incorporated them into your practice and pursuit of musical resources since then. 4) Move forward with life, musically and otherwise.
Enjoy your senior year!
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2015-08-11 09:46
Wow, you just got burned by nellsonic. Also I'd like to point out all "facts" so far about the director in question and op's abilities have come from the op so there may be a bit of bias there
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2015-08-11 10:28
My intention was the opposite of a "burn". It was simply my professional opinion based on the audio samples provided and exchanges in that previous thread. My hope was to offer perspective from someone who's been down a similar road - a formerly critical high school band student who later became a band director. I would hope that my emphasis on the words "at this point" would not be missed.
To me Ari's desire to make the best of what's available to him, to advance his own musicianship, and to continue to make the practice of music a significant part of his life after high school are all much more important that his current state of achievement. I'm sorry if that was unclear. My hope is that he will pursue these aims without undue entanglements that might damage his reputation and perhaps even more importantly his pleasure in the activity of music making. That's up to him though. He might be absolutely right about his band director, but that's not really the issue here, at least as I see it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-08-11 12:33
I find the talk about "equipment requirements" interesting. It almost seems we left off at this being an issue relegated to over zealous, mid tier, American band directors.
I would hasten to point out there are some examples from where this happens at high levels in Europe. Word on the street was that in the 70's Karajan required his entire horn section to use Holton french horns. That aside, you ONLY see Kochtan oboes and Ulman french horns in the Vienna Philharmonic even to this day. And many German orchestras put a stipulation in their audition notices for the use of German system clarinet only, despite the greater use of Boehm system clarinet in Germany every day.
Taking things back home, there are plenty of professional orchestral audition stories of the recent past (the last 30 years) where players in final rounds were asked about their equipment and then dismissed. Only more recently has it become more customary for the auditioning musician to politely refuse to answer that question.
Though I have heard of such American band directors, they are fortunately in the minority by far. I feel no such autocratic overreach is productive, particularly in an educational setting where one should be discussing the primacy of musical concepts and playing together with regard to that.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2015-08-11 17:12
I have no problem with a band director asking students too use blue box 3.5 reeds especially if it is obvious that the kids are playing on reeds that are too soft. The kids will probably have to work a little harder to play them, but what high school clarinet player, on average, doesn't have the need to work harder? Many times they have a tendency to play flat because of soft reeds and weak embouchure.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2015-08-11 17:36
Ari,
I'll take one more try here and that's it for me.
You said "I' m not sure if if a bit creeped out or impressed that you looked up my principals names, but I can assure that Dean Jones doesn't know the difference between a sectional and a quartet, nor do I think he would care." Mr. Jones has a qualified band director to tell him about the differences between a sectional and a quartet if it is important to know.
The reason you would be in his office, probably with your mother, is that you appear to have become a disruptive student. Schools do not tolerate students getting into "a conversation then dissolved into petty squabbles and barbs..." with a teacher for very long.
As far as being "creeped out", I found your principal and assistant principal's identity on the internet. Their names and your comments about your director, the band, other students, the advice given to you by others, etc. are there for the whole world to see.
Good luck, Ari. I'm done.
HRL
Post Edited (2015-08-12 02:58)
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2015-08-11 18:26
Ari...
Wow. I'll maintain that your intentions are noble, but perhaps resistance is futile. Back in the day when I thought my HS band sucked (ironic because they were quite good), I retreated and used the philosophy that 'success was the sweetest revenge'.
I would make sure that not only are you personally excelling at any music thrown at you in band, but do your damn best to make sure you make state this year. Yes, to reach that personal goal is amazing for you, but you're director will have to note your accomplishments (maybe to his chagrin). If not publicly to the entire band, he'll at least smile to himself how well you did. And be assured if you reach such a goal, he'll be bragging to every band director in the area over your accomplishments. I hear this all time when I'm judging..."Bob, how many all-staters you have this year?"
Go give 'em hell! Keep your head down and kick some butt!
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2015-08-11 20:42
I think the OP came here looking for affirmation and instead got useful, heart felt, professional advice. I wish I'd had this sort of advice when I was at school; but I probably wouldn't have listened anyway!
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-08-12 08:06
Many good points have been made, but I want to add one thing that Ari might not realize.
He mentioned his anger over the fact that the large band was split into two smaller groups during his sophomore year, and he was very bitter.
It's likely that a lot went on behind the scenes when the band director made this decision, and he might not have wanted to do it. It's possible he was forced by his superiors, for one reason or another, to create the two bands. If he had made his true feelings known to his students, he could have been written up for insubordination or fired.
When I was a public school band director, I was asked by my music coordinator and building administrators to do things that made no sense. On many occasions, I wanted to make my feelings known to my students and parents, but knew that if I wanted to keep my job, it was best to keep my mouth shut.
Some states and school districts now have very stringent requirements about who is allowed to work with students. There is a long tradition of parent volunteers and members of the community coming into schools to assist with few questions asked. This is still permitted, but in many cases, volunteers and other outsiders have to go through a background check and/or get fingerprinted. Someone has to pay for this, and in some instances, it's cheaper to keep the outsiders out rather than pay the fingerprinting and background check costs.
It's possible your director was told by one of his superiors that he could no longer bring in the woodwind instructor, and he's not able to discuss this issue with you.
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