 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2015-05-01 02:10
Hi all,
Has anyone had any success doing this on an R13? By "success," I mean not having any major intonation problems like a throat Bb that's 20 cents sharp.
Thanks,
- shj
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-05-01 02:56
The register tube is quite a fundamental part of a clarinet's acoustic design - why would you want to swap one from another model or pitch instrument?
What do you hope to achieve?
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2015-05-01 03:19
It is common to place a Bb tube on an R13 A to make the clarion A speak more securely. I use an RC Bb tube. I don't expect it would bring it down in pitch, but it is easy to do and undo.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Ed
Date: 2015-05-01 05:25
I do remember that as Steve says, the RC Bb was commonly used on the A, which helped a number of response issues.
My thought would be, if it works go for it. I know some people who use the same barrel on A and Bb. I don't find that it works well for me, but everyone's taste and equipment is different.
As Steve says, it is easy to switch back and forth with no problems, as opposed to things like undercutting tone holes or reaming a bore, which would be permanent.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-05-01 13:35
I have a Bb clarinet with two different reg tubes. One is 2 mm longer than the original. There is no measurable difference in intonation. The flow has to change to affect intonation, so diameter and pad height are probably more important.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2015-05-01 20:56
I think in theory a different length tube - if that's the only difference - shouldn't noticeably affect the pitch. But the reason, I've always thought, that players replace the original register tubes with shorter ones is to improve response and/or stability in the clarion register.
I think intuitively that having a longer register tube intrude farther into the air stream would cause at least a little more turbulence, just as pushing a stick farther across a stream of water will visibly change the stream's flow more than holding the stick at the edge of the stream. Maybe - here's where observation and intuitive theory separate - the added turbulence causes a change in resistance that could destabilize the whole air column in a clarinet's upper bore.
Wasn't avoiding the use of an intruding register tube the reason for wrap-around register keys? It allowed the vent to open on top, where it was hoped there would be little or no water to flowing into the opening (questionable).
Karl
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2015-05-01 23:51
I discussed the issue of problematic register tubes on R13 A clarinets with Francois Kloc, when he was Buffet's touring acoustical expert. Francois underlined what Norman wrote above, that the register tube is a fundamental part of a clarinet's acoustic design. Francois pointed out that the R13 A clarinet's register tube has an internal hourglass shape, while the Bb clarinet register tube is cylindrical. This hourglass shape, or bottleneck, in the A register tube is necessary for the physics of the R13 A clarinet, but causes a certain choke which can manifest in the notorious clarion A grunt.
So the important issue is not the length of a register tube, as much as its internal shape.
You can exchange an A register tube for a Bb register tube in an A clarinet, but it can cause problems arguably worse than the original problem (clarion A grunt). To illustrate this, Francois inserted a Bb register tube in place of my A register tube. The throat Bb and the long B went very sharp and very fuzzy.
Incredibly, I continued with the Bb register tube in my A clarinet with an add-on called a pinocchio, a spike attached to the register key which enters the register tube to bring down the resulting sharpness of the throat Bb and long B. This was when I was young and myopic and did not realize that the Bb register tube/pinocchio combination in an A clarinet was entirely asinine. It created worse problems and was ultimately unnecessary, as the player gets used to his A clarinet and learns to avoid the clarion A grunt.
Occasionally I still see Bb register tube/pinocchio combinations on A clarinets when my students buy used A clarinets.
Simon
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Author: S.H.J.
Date: 2015-05-02 17:20
Hi Simon,
Could you elaborate on the problems caused by the Bb register tube/pinocchio combination? What kind of problems did it exactly cause?
Thanks,
Seok Hee
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2015-05-03 06:14
Hello Seok Hee,
>Could you elaborate on the problems caused by the Bb register
>tube/pinocchio combination? What kind of problems did it exactly cause?
The Bb register tube/pinocchio combination in an A clarinet did not cause problems in itself.
The point is that the Bb register tube in an R13 A clarinet caused the the throat Bb and long B to be intractably sharp, with the long B being super-fuzzy into the bargain.
The pinocchio attenuates somewhat the two problems caused by the cylindrical Bb register tube. It lowers somewhat the sharp Bb and B, but not nearly enough for realistic, professional use and the two notes remain fuzzy. For players obsessed with eliminating the clarion A grunt, the pinocchio can seduce them into accepting the tradeoff; professionally-unusable throat Bb and long B for an unchoked clarion A.
Simon
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-05-03 08:45
According to a retired clarinet speciailist at Buffet (in USA), the overal best compromise for the A clarinet register tube is a Buffet RC Bb tube, reamed to 2.8mm, then flared to 3.0mm at the outside end. I'm not sure why it would need to be a Buffet RC tube if it's reamed to a certain size anyway.
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-05-03 14:54
The buffet RC tube has a smaller bore diameter than the R13 tube, that's why.
Post Edited (2015-05-03 14:55)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-05-03 15:58
>> The buffet RC tube has a smaller bore diameter than the R13 tube, that's why. <<
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant, if you are going to ream it to a certain size anyway, no need to go through the trouble of getting an RC tube from Buffet instead of just making one.
It probably made sense for that person to use a Buffet RC tube since they were there (saves time and work) but for almost everyone else just making a new one with those dimensions is probably easier and faster.
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-05-03 23:03
The R13 tube has a cylindrical bore that is bigger than 2.8mm, so can't be reamed to those dimensions. By starting with the RC smaller bore the reg tube can be given a conical (or "flared") bore configuration but still have the smaller entry point.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2015-05-04 09:28
I guess what I wrote was still not clear? I never suggested to modify the original (too big) tube instead of using the RC tube. If you can easily get a Buffet Bb RC register tube, that can save you some work/time. My point was that if you are making a tube to specific dimensions there is no reason to necessarily start with a Buffet RC Bb register tube. You can use any rod/tube that can be machined to those dimensions.
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Author: donald
Date: 2015-05-04 10:43
aha- yes, a good point, though if you're having to deal with a busy repair person (and depressingly, in this country at least, only a handful with have the skill to make a register tube from scratch) it would be cheaper and easier to persuade them to adjust the RC tube than to make one completely from scratch... but I get your point now.
d
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-05-04 10:45
When I bought my R13 A clarinet, it had the grunt in the clarion A. Muncy Winds sold me a replacement tube that fixed it well, but I don't know where they got it.
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