 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Pwrmaestro
Date: 2014-10-28 00:52
My Buffet R-13 is approximately six years old; it's an absolutely teriffic horn. Apparently my "chemistry" is tough on the nickel. I want to have it silverplated before the keys/rings are too far gone. Do you have recommendations who I might contact for this project? I'm in Texas, but want to contact someone with a great reputation. Thanks for help!
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Author: James S
Date: 2014-10-28 01:24
I would mail it to Bernd Schille in Sweden. You can't beat his work.
James
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2014-10-28 03:26
From your email it seems you have nickel plated keys. You don't mention what the issue is. Plating on these clarinets has gotten very thin these days and it is not unusual to wear through nickel or silver. That being said, nickel is much more resistant to wear and oxidation than silver.
I'm not sure if silver can be directly plated over silver. The silver may have to be stripped, or there may be an intermediate layer of another metal needed (probably copper). Of course all pads and key corks need to be replaced. You will have to decide whether you also want the posts replated. After plating, the keys probably won't fit the clarinet and will need to be refit. It can take a lot of time to do this for every key (I've had to do this).
My advice would be to work with a trusted repair person who can do all of the refitting, repadding etc. Anderson Plating in Elkhart, Indiana is a good place to have the plating done.
Steve Ocone
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Author: ErezK
Date: 2014-10-28 03:47
I had my R13 overhauled by Daniel Deitch when I lived in the San Francisco Bay area. He had the keywork sent to a flute factory in Indiana where it was stripped off the nickel plating and replated in silver. Came out beautiful. It did not include the posts, but i guess he did not want to remove them if not absolutely required.
It was not cheap and it took almost a month.
As an anecdotal note, 20 years ago, Tel Aviv had a technician called Ivan Kolev. He was somewhat eccentric but did an incredible work. I had two clarinets fully restored by him. One needed a replate... He knew a guy at at some shop or a factory ... Bottom line it was about $30 extra and the turn around was 2 weeks... He also got a taylor to make a custom cover for the double case after he completely re-did the interior. I tried to find him but he moved out of the country... Folks of my vintage remember him quite fondly....
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-10-28 04:06
Silver can be successfully plated directly onto nickel plate as a nickel flash is usually applied as an undercoat for silver to be plated onto to give a nice flat surface (on a molecular level) for the silver to adhere to as copper is very rough in comparison.
Nickel plate is often applied very thinly (usually around 3 to 5 microns) due to its hardness which blunts cutting tools if applied too thickly. Some instruments had nickel plate applied to around 25 microns (which is the thickness good quality silver plate is applied to), but that makes key fitting very difficult when it comes to reaming out key barrels and fraising them back when fitting them between pillars as cutting tools skate over nickel instead of cutting into it as they do on silver or the base metal.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2014-10-28 17:56
John Butler can do that work for you. I sent him an old unplated instrument and it came back looking brand new.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2014-10-28 17:56)
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-10-28 18:10
about 30 years ago I had Weiner Music replate by new R13 with silver. excellent work.
richard smith
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-10-28 20:06
alternatively you could use museum/renaissance wax to polish your keys. It will need to be re-applied eventually but it does good job protecting keys.
Beware that key refinish will require a complete key stripping (pads, corks, springs), plating and then rebuilding them back; so it will not be the same clarinet as you've got.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-10-29 03:34
It will be the same clarinet, only better cosmetically and if repadded well it may be more responsive than before - the keywork plating will have absolutely zero effect on the tone.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-10-31 18:47
Chris P wrote:
> It will be the same clarinet, only better cosmetically and if
> repadded well it may be more responsive than before - the
> keywork plating will have absolutely zero effect on the tone.
>
you may be right but then again maybe not.
a while back had fixed the throat tonehole chip on PM eefer.. It improved tone greatly, but the intonation is all over the place. Was perfectly in tune before fix. Whomever tuned it originally (factory?) did not see the chip, undercut and tuned it with a leak.
stripping keys and complete re-pad has too many variables (pad height, seal, etc) which may change to say that it will be the same; just saying. It could be better or worse; depends on instrument, who is doing work and how much time/effort put in. And it is not re-plate any re-pad could be like that. Call me paranoid if you'd like.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-10-31 18:59
Others here are way more expert than me on these subjects. But I concur with cyclopathic- you really don't know what you'll get out of any repair. My own limited experiences have been all over the place, and others here report the same thing.
So, my take is- if your clarinet is "absolutely terrific", I would be reluctant to put that at risk. You may end up back at square one- looking for another good playing horn- even if your redone one looks like a million bucks. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Or at least, get a 2nd clarinet you like equally well before taking chances with the 1st one.
Others have reported problems with nickel tarnishing, and I fight that myself. Shine it up and apply some clear nail polish top coat... end of issue. Sounds too easy, but it works. Reapply polish periodically, $10 worth will last you for years.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-10-31 20:19
To be honest, the clarinets I've had replated for myself were in completely poor and unplayable condition when I bought them, so I only know what the end product is like rather than how they may have played before.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cyclopathic
Date: 2014-10-31 22:47
@Chris
you are probably 95-98% correct and there is nothing to worry about.
Truth is any clarinet (or woodwind in general) would need to be re-paded eventually or can/will go bad over the time and the majority of instruments wouldn't be very sensitive to small changes, so you might as well bite the bullet early...
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Author: hartt
Date: 2014-11-01 09:32
rich
sent you a lengthy private email so do not delete it as an unrecognized sender.
dennis
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2014-11-01 20:33
A colleague of mine used Kessler's in Las Vegas, and seems happy with the result.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2014-11-01 21:44
Just because someone else or others had good luck is no guarantee you will also.
I don't know why people obsess over the wearing away of the plating at touch points. The plater will have to strip away the perfectly good plating to do the job and some dimensions could change that could affect key action. Shipping the instrument carries risk also. And......suppose you're not happy with the completed job......it's back to the plater......and maybe more cost. I'm in favor of the Renaissance Wax approach......but, hey, that's me.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-11-02 05:27
There are several dimensions that will affect the keys fitting once they're plated which is inevitable, but any reputable company or repairer will have the necessary tools to deal with that so the keys should end up fitting with far closer tolerances than before or even better tolerances than it had when it left the factory (and more besides).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Andrez444
Date: 2014-11-02 11:07
Chris
would you be able to advise the approx price to replate a pair of R13s dated around 1980, Bflat well worn, and a A v good condition it. They are nickel plated at the moment but Wouk due interested in silver playing.
Andrew
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