 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-06-23 21:28
It said, "New Topic" at the top of this, but it's an old topic, I'm afraid – ISTR that someone either did a presentation at ICA, or wrote an article in The Clarinet, about the supposedly 'wrong notes' in the Poulenc Sonata for clarinet and piano.
Is that true, or did the latest edition of the Sonata lay that one to rest?
Tony
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2014-06-25 09:29
The March 2010 edition of The Clarinet has an article titled "The Poulenc Sonata for clarinet and piano: the French tradition according to Guy Deplus". The article lists changes made by Deplus to the clarinet part and the score. There are about 25 changes of which only 5 or 6 are notes; the remainder are dynamics, accents, and phrasing marks. Chester Music's 2000 and 2006 editions (unsurprisingly, given the date of the article) do not appear to incorporate these changes. I don't know about any editions later than 2006.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-06-25 10:53
I've seen Deplus' modifications and I've also seen André Boutard's-Boutard who gave the first performance of the work and whom, if my memory serves me right, played at least parts of the sonata to Poulenc before the piece was published. To what extent is the Poulenc Sonata fully completed? At any rate, the Deplus and Boutard "corrections" are very different from what I see in the most recent Chester edition. I was brought up with teachers telling me "Boutard told me this; Poulenc told me this..", then the teacher would take his pencil out and duly change notes, dynamic markings, etc. while I was expected to keep quiet, believe everything I was told and take my medicine. This way of going about things is akin to spreading rumours: you get more and more different versions of the same story.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-06-25 13:34
Thanks. Reading the article satisfies me that what I'd thought to be true about the situation – namely, that Poulenc made small corrections before he died that his French colleagues didn't know about, and so assumed to be printers' errors when they appeared in the 1963 first edition – is in fact the case.
There is no 'new' evidence there; the photocopies of Poulenc's corrections constitute an authoritative case.
Tony
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Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2014-06-26 04:51
Tony --
I'm not sure of your conclusion -- too much Napa Valley wine tonight, I think. Is it your conclusion that the Deplus "corrections" in the Clarinet article accurately reflect what Poulenc intended, and should be incorporated into a performance?
Ed.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-06-26 10:52
What we need is more than one edition of the Poulenc Sonata so that we can pick and choose the more/most convincing. As long as the piece remains in the public domaine, this will be difficult. There are also other Poulenc works involving a big clarinet part that are not published at all: "Rhapsodie Nègre, Voyageur sans Bagages, Vie de Château" (great stuff!). They are available only on hire, and what you pay for them is more than the take from the concert ever is. Yet the Poulenc heirs seem determined to further performances of his music. Maybe with a little persuading, they would make these works available.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-06-26 11:56
>> What we need is more than one edition of the Poulenc Sonata so that we can pick and choose the more/most convincing. As long as the piece remains in the public domaine, this will be difficult.>>
I don't understand this. What we already HAVE is 'more than one edition of the Poulenc Sonata', with people picking and choosing what they think is the more/most convincing. (And the piece is copyright, not in the public domain.)
The problem is rather with the scholarship involved. You can PLAY whichever version you want, knowing that Poulenc at one point wrote down the notes that you are playing.
What I don't like is people insisting that 'what Poulenc wanted' is what THEY prefer, against the evidence that he changed it; and saying that it's a disgrace that his final version is being played; and hacking students' copies and then publishing misleading articles in magazines like 'The Clarinet', with photocopies of their hacks proudly displayed.
Tony
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-06-26 12:40
>> What I don't like is people insisting that 'what Poulenc wanted' is what THEY prefer, against the evidence that he changed it; and saying that it's a disgrace that his final version is being played; <<
Are some people that extreme about it...? Sounds a bit... insane.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2014-06-26 12:56
Clarnibass: Indeed, it does sound a bit extreme, but that is exactly what I've experienced with at least two teachers: they would change notes, ariculations, etc. and claim that they had it on good authority. If we want sound scholarship, a publisher like Henle would have to get his hands on the original manuscript and do the necessary work. For the moment, I imagine this isn't possible for legal reasons. One thing that we haven't discussed is the piano part. How faithful is the published version to what Poulenc wrote? Pianists I've played the piece with have complained that many things can't be right.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2014-06-26 14:25
>> If we want sound scholarship, a publisher like Henle would have to get his hands on the original manuscript and do the necessary work. For the moment, I imagine this isn't possible for legal reasons.>>
The point, Ruben is: I've posted photocopies of those disputed bars in Poulenc's manuscript here – see above. Chester's latest edition matches those bars – I think that despite some small sillinesses, that edition makes another publisher's involvement redundant.
What more do I need to do to counter, here, people who think that Cuper is right?
Or who trust the impeccable scholarship of 'The Clarinet'?-^)
Tony
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