The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: normancult
Date: 2014-03-01 00:11
Hello everybody,
I am currently on the market for a new mouthpiece.
Currently I play a pair of Buffet Festivals with a VD M30 and 3.5 V12 reeds.
Does anyone who also plays a similar setup can recommend to me some options?
Thank you so much. Help is really appreciated.
Best,
Norman Cult
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-03-01 00:25
It may help your quest if you could explain why you are moving from the VD M30 and what characteristics that doesn't have that you are looking for.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-01 01:16
Mr Small nailed it. What is not happening for you with an M30 that you hope other mouthpieces will solve. What if anything do you like about the M30? How long have you played it? Why did you move to it or was it your first mouthpiece? What genre of clarinet playing are you focusing your energy towards? Do you dislike your sound, ease of play, intonation, speed of articulation, inability for your sound to travel? Are you looking for a mouthpiece to solve a reed problem...a finger problem, etc.
Kindly share more of your clarinet story with us?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: normancult
Date: 2014-03-02 23:06
First thank you guys for the replies.
Basically I am moving from the M30 because I want to experiment with my sound and my playing. See how I will react using another setup.
I feel very comfortable with my sound and intonation.
In the other hand, I also feel that fast articulations have been a problem.
I started to feel my attacks a little too much sluggish.
I have been playing it for 3 years. Before I played with a B45.
Any suggestions? Thoughts?
Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-02 18:38
So Mr. Cult--is it fair to say that you have articulated better in the past--particularly with the B45, or that you just want your articulation to be faster but it's not as if the M30 has compromised your articulation, or that you articulated faster under use of Vandoren's B45?
Follow up question: what made you move off the B45?
2nd follow up question: what, if anything changed, aside from your mouthpiece, assuming your articulation has even taken a hit...?
How long were you on the B45? How long on the M30.
I need to know answers to questions like these, because short of being in front of your play, I need to blindly take my best guess as to whether this is even, deep down, really an issue best addressed by a mouthpiece change.
What do you even consider a desired articulation speed, e.g. would 16th notes at 120 beats per minute be considered ideal, a minimum, or something in between ??
It is just an articulation problem? Whose reeds and what strengths do you use? Do you have any protocol with regard to preparing reeds including balancing them?
How good are you at extremely even but best fast legato play? I'd like a dollar for every articulation problem that was really a finger problem.
What happens when you speed up the metronome to the point of articulation failure? Are you hands moving faster than your tongue. Does your articulation fail or succeed in particular registers?
I'm sorry for all the questions sir, but this isn't "I can't play low E!!!"
(Answer: take the swab out of the bell)
Your issues have nuance to them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeroen
Date: 2014-03-03 07:47
Well, you can just try some mouthpieces.
The Festival seems to be developed for a B40, so you can try that.
The 5RV Lyra could be a good one too.
But you have to try with all kind of different reeds.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-03-04 05:47
Fast articulation on the M30 seems to be a common problem.
The culprit seems to be fairly thick rails. From previous posts, it seems that people that like the M30, can send it off to a refacer to have the rails thinned a bit and it transforms it to a quicker responding mouthpiece.
If that's the main issue, I say send it to a refacer.
If you don't want to, the M15 is fairly close to the M30 as far as playability and you'll find the response quicker.
Alexi <- who also likes the festival and tries to get a greenline one at every band he goes to.
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-04 06:30
Alexi/Joroen:
I'm concerned that we may be sending Mr. Cult, as a group, some somewhat contradictory advice. Isn't a Vandoren B40 exactly the same as a B45 only with the very wider rails that have been cause for Alexi's oncern?
I hope Mr. Cult shares with us his articulation experience on the B45. If it was no better than on the M30, I may try to get to the route of the problem in technique, and presribe the correct clarinet studies to work on, before throwing hardware at the solution. (I may also be wrong.)
This is not to say Alexi that I don't appreciate or haven't benefited from your historical mouthpiece knowledge, or that it's not unreasonable to assume Mr. Cult a relatively advanced player given his ownership of an "A" clarinet as well.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TomS
Date: 2014-03-05 05:05
The Festival is my overall favorite in the Buffet line-up. Borrowed one for a while a few years ago and almost ordered a Greenline version.
I'd try the Vandoren M30-lyre. I use one and find it had a compact and warm sound and articulates quite well. For a moderately open MP, it is easy to control. I use mine with Lyrique Libertas, Lyrique Speranza and an old Selmer Signature. Reeds are 3-3.25 Legere, regular cut.
I can really push it in a noisy community band rehearsal and it still holds together and feels comfortable.
Tom
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-05 07:23
When a player asks for advice on a mouthpiece change we ask why. We do this because problems are often solved without or in concert with mouthpiece changes, or solely by mouthpieces.
When they say it's because they want to articulate faster, and cite more than one mouthpiece in the playing history, we are obligated to know, before we go suggesting mouthpiece changes, if their articulation was ever faster in the past, and if so, under what setup that’s different than the current one--especially when the introductory mouthpiece was Vandoren's Swiss Army knife: the B45: upon which fast articulation is certainly possible.
We do this not only because our own good experiences with a mouthpiece may not be reproducible with another player, but even they are, we don't want the mouthpiece change to compensate for bad technique: we want to correct technique AND maximize mouthpiece fit for optimal performance if both can be done. Still further, people sometimes don't react to mouthpieces the way the maker designed them (for speed, intonation, sound).
And even if another mouthpiece makes a player articulate faster, we don't want it to come at the expense of another attribute (e.g. projection/intonation), or know that if we had also addressed technique in concert with the mouthpiece change, that they’d be playing staccato scales at “Martin Frost” like speeds.
If Mr. Cult reports degradation in articulation from his mouthpiece switch, please, debate the merits of brands and models of mouthpieces at will. But until we know more of his play, IMHO we’re just throwing poop, err. mouthpieces at the wall to see what sticks.
Contributors of course should feel completely okay disagreeing with me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2014-03-05 13:03
ThatPerfectReed wrote:
> we don't want the mouthpiece change to
> compensate for bad technique:
You're right in wanting to know more. But a mouthpiece will never compensate for bad technique. Rather, a mouthpiece can only support or interfere with a player's application of good technique.
> And even if another mouthpiece makes a player articulate
> faster,
You probably didn't mean this the way it came out - a mouthpiece can't *make* a player do anything (except, maybe, struggle). It can *prevent* a good result by getting in the way, although good technique can overcome most mouthpieces' inefficiencies. It becomes a question of how much effort different mouthpieces require to get optimal results. Actually, if I could find a mouthpiece that *made* me articulate faster, I'd buy a dozen of them.
In any case, unless there's something radically different between the Festival and other Buffet models (or other modern French Boehm clarinets) in terms of bore size or shape, the match between instrument and mouthpiece is probably far less critical than the match between player and mouthpiece. Norman, you're just going to have to try mouthpieces out and choose for yourself. IMO, the instrument you couple it with (unless it's something other than a modern French Boehm - e.g. an Oehler or an old BH 1010 or Selmer CT), has very little importance.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ThatPerfectReed
Date: 2014-03-05 18:40
Karl: you are an esteemed colleague here. I’ve enjoyed and benefitted from your contributions.
Let me offer an example of what I think is a mouthpiece compensating for bad technique: it’s something I did as a young player, but only realized later, as well as something I’ve seen students do.
A difficult staccato passage is about to arise in a piece they’re preparing for an audition. I know the student’s had difficulty with it in the past. Immediately, my focus turns to the embouchure and fingers: both of which instinctively clamp up, which ironically—need I tell you—is the opposite of what we’d want to happen when a player’s faced with a difficult phrase.
So I assign something out of "Klose" or "Rose" (or "Lazarus," or whatever) to the student, and explain why this “boring stuff” is relevant to their performance piece. But time is limited to practice, and sometimes assignments in the study books take a back seat to doing “the cool stuff;” I get that as much as I wish it could be different.
On more than one occasion, with the near instinctiveness of the way they clamped up on the passage, I find them at next week’s lesson sporting a new mouthpiece with a more open facing that compensates for their tendency to bite, and their less than lackluster stacatto. Now, staccato that couldn’t be done before is all but manageable.
Nevermind they now squeak on the new hardware where they haven’t before, and their intonation, as well as the inner core of their sound has gone to pot.
This is my idea of hardware (a mouthpiece) compensating for bad technique. And yet, your notion that “…a mouthpiece can only support or interfere with a player’s application of good technique” is not wrong either, as other attributes of their play, as I’ve reported, have taken a hit. This new mouthpiece is affecting their reed strength choice (now too strong), sound, pitch, and playing reliability (squeaking)—i.e. interfering with their technique as you aptly write.
While on my soapbox let me also say I am by no means against the (careful) exploration of hardware—most specifically mouthpieces. In fact temporarily changing equipment lets us gauge the extent to which a problem with play may be our own abilities, or our ability on a particular mouthpiece. It’s when it becomes an activity that takes away from time in front of the music stand that concerns me. Equally important, I get worried when experienced players tend to offer a solution simply because it’s in their area of expertise—i.e. the so called “a carpenter sees problems as solvable with a hammer and nail” way of thinking, and a mouthpiece expert suggests a mouthpiece change.
You are absolutely correct that my choice of words, in saying a mouthpiece can “make a player,” was a product of misunderstanding arising from my failure to use better language. A mouthpiece can facilitate a player, but no mouthpiece I know can even turn an elementary school Julian Bliss into the young (pre?) teen who did Messenger’s Solo De Concurs for the Queen’s Jubilee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG9D8JjlGow.
Yes, Mr. Cult should try mouthpieces out, but I’m not sure we agree on why. Without more about his playing known to me, my reasoning for his conducting mouthpiece trials is so that trying mouthpieces might not only find him something more suitable, but at least equally important, if it doesn’t, suggest that his articulation problems, regardless of mouthpiece used, should (always be) worked on at the practice stand, and not always the music store. And I am certainly not implying that anyone here disagrees that such practice is essential.
May all players find the technique and hardware that gives them joy, with more of the former than latter, so as to make up for when the latter (that stinking reed) isn’t up to snuff.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-03-06 04:50
I just figured it seemed from his previous posts that he liked everything about the M30 except for the tonging, and it sounded to me from his post that this is a problem specific to the M30 sounding as though it was not happening with the B45.
So a quick test, and cost effective answer might be to thin the rails of the M30 as I remember from previous posts reports of how it transformed what seems to be a "sluggish" mouthpiece model into something more responsive.
$50 and some postage to a refacer could solve the problem quickly without sacrificing the other aspects of the mouthpiece that he likes. Or at least eliminate one possible solution before opening that VERY large "what mouthpiece should I try" question.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2014-03-06 11:24
Some players have larger tongues than others and probably articulate slower. Double tonguing is a valuable skill that makes for faster articulation and better performance. It is easy to learn.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
|