 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2013-12-23 16:45
I have a student quality Vito resonite bass clarinet that plays very well from low Eb to G in the middle of the clarion, but the notes above this are difficult to play. The pads and keys are in excellent shape. My question is would adding a second register vent improve the problem, and how difficult would it be for a technician to do it ?
Thanks.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-23 20:04
It is a fair bit of surgery and will be pricey, but not impossible.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: qualitycontrol
Date: 2013-12-24 01:30
Pretty valuable to just learn to play that range without the register key. Voicing technique is a lot different than on Bb, but it's no where near impossible, tongue position is really important. Does the lower altissimo play fine? Usually the G to C just jump up a harmonic or two if not really locked in, practicing placing them and they'll come naturally.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-12-24 00:35
Depending on the actual instrument it is possible to play that register reasonable well. Some play better that others. That's the biggest problem with those student models. I don't have much experience with the student models, though I used to have a Bundy at one of the schools I taught at that played reasonably well up there but no where like a double register instrument. It's just a problem so I can only wish you the best of luck in trying to learn how to voice it well. It's possible inserting a larger or smaller tube in the register hole may make it better but I reallly don't know. I doubt a tech would even have different sizes though.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-12-24 06:21
I agree with my peers here, learn to master it. You may switch reeds and mouthpieces in the process, though, but even a double-register instrument won't magically do the trick. Learn to tame the beast...
--
Ben
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-24 01:54
Alan -
A cellist friend took lessons from Zara Nelsova, who said that every cellist should play a "cigar box" instrument for several years to learn to draw a great sound from it.
When tuba student complained to Arnold Jacobs about their inferior instruments and mouthpieces, Jacobs would show that he could play them as well as his custom made tuba and mouthpiece. He said that it was important not to change anything, but to show how much could be gotten from "inferior" equipment.
It's absolutely possible to sound great on your Vito. When you get a top-line bass, it won't make anything better -- just easier.
Ken Shaw
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2013-12-24 02:31
Thank you all for your kind responses. I will now do my best to tame the beast. One word from Chris P's response scared me, "pricey".....sent a shiver through my wallet.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-12-24 16:17
It's a leak. Or two. Or more. I've got one in the shop with the same problem right now. We know it is the throat Ab/G# in our case. My assistant has changed the pad twice. The pad looks and "feels" great. And when I press on the key cup it gets easy to play. I guess I'll have to do this one myself.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-24 16:49
That's the sign of a rim that's not level or has gotten a nick, or possibly a pad cup that's not level. It isn't not pricy at all to fix -- not dead routine, like replacing a pad, but well within the ordinary skill of a professional repair tech.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-12-24 17:38
A second register vent on the neck, operated MANUALLY by a second register key for the left thumb, would not be too difficult or expensive to add. But you would have to learn to shift your thumb over to the second key when playing extended passages in the upper clarion or altissimo (this is not that difficult, oboe players do it all the time, and I have a couple of bass clarinets like that and have gotten used to the technique).
On the other hand, adding a second AUTOMATIC register vent is a big deal. I wouldn't even want to try it. It would require a complete redesign of the register mechanism and a substantial amount of extra keywork. As others have suggested, do the best you can with what you've got.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-24 13:45
All modern oboes have a semi-automatic system. The high-range vent is controlled by a key for the left index finger knuckle that requires only a microscopic movement. Also, even if you press that touch, the upper vent is kept closed until you lift your left ring finger.
In Europe, a fair preponderance of oboists use a fully automatic system, like the one on the saxophone. (Adolphe Sax, however, made his instruments with double thumb keys.) Oboe profs in the U.S. teach the semi-automatic system, claiming that the automatic system makes certain special fingerings impossible. But I've never seen an oboe passage that can't be played with the automatic system. I'm not much of an oboist, though, and I'd welcome enlightenment.
If a BC automatic mechanism could be as simple and reliable as the sax/oboe design, I'd buy it in a minute.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-24 20:23
For some odd reason, bass clarinets with two speaker vents were either simple action (with two separate keys) or fully automatic (with just the one thumb touch) but were never made in semi-auto fashion which is a much better compromise if you want simplicity and ease of playing, so that would indeed be a feasible solution.
I think some German basses with three speaker vents had a semi-auto touchpiece and one fully auto one (controlling two vents) so switching between them was made much easier as you can keep your thumb on both touches without causing any problems.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-12-24 22:40
My German-system bass clarinet is an older (1950s, I think) F. Arthur Uebel with a manual double-vent system; but the lower (main) vent is usable through the entire range of the instrument -- the upper vent makes a slight improvement in intonation and response of the upper clarion and altissimo, but this is unnoticeable except in extended passages. In my opinion an automatic system would be overkill for this particular instrument, but perhaps mine is an anomaly (just as I have played a few single-vent Boehm-system basses that were in-tune and played freely in the upper register, although the majority don't).
If it were necessary, I don't think it would be hard to 'semi-automate' my instrument by adding some sort of rocker to prevent both vents from opening simultaneously. Seems to me we've had this discussion before, Chris, or am I having another attack of deja vu?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-24 20:01
We've definitely been down this path at some point in the past.
Similarly, saxes went from simple acting 8ve keys to fully auto without a transitional semi-auto version.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2013-12-28 03:00
I concur that it's a leak -- make sure that when you go above the staff the second register vent (the one that plays throat Bb) is closing tightly. Easy fix with the adjustment screw that's already there.
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Author: DancingMan
Date: 2014-03-04 09:27
I have a Vito bass too, which has a somewhat more elusive leak - it seems to leak not from a pad, but from around the register vent, where it fits into the body. I'd make sure you check that too.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-03-04 19:21
Good suggestion from DancingMan. Another possible "sneak leak" on Vito basses is between the upper joint and the metal neck tenon sleeve.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-03-04 17:30
PS a neat alternative method of checking for leaks in a bass clarinet is to insert a "poodle balloon" (the long thingy which fun fair artists use to make animals) into the bore (from the bell end) and inflate it as needed...
Not all leaks are detected with a light or a feeler.
--
Ben
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