 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-28 19:07
I just ROFLed through an embarrassingly bad clarinet choir video on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbzjxDMot3w&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL8850D4E0A39AE13F.
It's a compendium of everything that can go wrong. The pizzicato notes at the beginning should be "like plucking a chicken." Instead, they're like throwing a handful of BBs on a tin roof. The alto clarinet makes a gigantic, honking clam on a big solo, and on and on.
My high school band played better than this.
This isn't a beginner whose proud parents put up a video of "baby's first notes." This is a college ensemble. Do the players and the conductor (similarly awful) really imagine they're good, or that people should pay to hear them play? This would repel me from attending the college.
As those who follow the Klarinet list know, the most active participant recently has been a player who performs well from time to time, but never edits her videos to remove even the breakdowns where she has to stop and begin over. Yet she advertises herself as accepting pupils and performing a "service" to the clarinet community.
What are these people thinking? Was alcohol involved?
Sorry I woke up grumpy today. I should be hibernating through the winter. But still. . . .
Ken Shaw
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Author: modernicus
Date: 2013-12-28 19:33
This group is independent of the college and if you look at their page, some of them are amateurs with other jobs, businesses etc... but most are music professionals of some sort. Not sure what happened.
Post Edited (2013-12-28 20:27)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-28 20:37
Still awful. Still carries the college logo. Still cringeworthy.
Ken Shaw
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-28 21:27
While the beginning doesn't sound quite right, I thought (except for the one honk) the rest of it was quite respectable, and enjoyable listening.
It is not represented as a college group, although they used a college facility for the performance, as does my community band at times, and the local Philharmonic groups do also.
My biggest criticism is that the still cutins were at different locations, not during the performance itself, but...
Gary K
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-12-28 22:01
Although I love finding fully professional, excellent performances on YouTube, I enjoy hearing amateur and semi-pro groups as well. I hasten to add that you won't be finding any of my playing on YouTube. Yikes. No. But as an amateur myself, I'm interested in hearing how students, amateurs and semi-pros sound.
That's especially true this year. The last week of December is usually a time when I eagerly anticipate the annual International Saxophone Symposium, the first or second weekend of January. The U.S. Navy sponsors this festival at George Mason U.'s Center for the Performing Arts in Fairfax, Virginia. Advanced students come from all over the USA and the festival attracts superb professionals as well. On Saturday the symposium features a full day of pro, amateur and semi-pro performances nearly non-stop in two concert halls and some smaller venues. But not this year. The Navy cancelled the 2014 festival because of that damned sequester. So right now I'll take what I can get on YouTube in lieu of live performances, and I enjoyed listening to that Silverwood group despite the whoopsies.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: gemini-clarinet
Date: 2013-12-28 22:06
Ken ,
That wasn't nearly as bad as I expected from your description. There are some truly GUT WRENCHING clarinet video lurking in the bowels of YouTube.
I could suggest some, but that would be MEAN --- wouldn't it?? :-)
BARRY
Tucson , AZ
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Author: gemini-clarinet
Date: 2013-12-28 22:17
Awww - what the hell --------
This will be the first time you ever wished a group had a piccolo player!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CesQouggN4o
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-12-28 22:52
I am often amazed at what is posted on youtube. It seems that often no matter what the performance quality, there are people commenting on what a great job it is. I suppose everyone is entitled to their moment of fame, although Ken is right- a lot of it would benefit from some serious editing.
Post Edited (2013-12-29 14:03)
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2013-12-28 23:06
I honestly didn't think it was as big a train wreck as you make it seem. Yeah it wasn't very good for someone with good ears, but it wasn't as disastrous as you made it out to be. *shrug*
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2013-12-28 23:20
Anyone can post most anything on YouTube, so what we have there is a rich variety, some great and some that provide teachable moments. I think that is good. Many groups post things there for their members as a chance to see and hear their playing. Maybe someone in this clarinet group will say, "we need to work on hitting the notes together", or "I wish I had taken a bigger breath before that solo", or even "What Was I Thinking!". It is all good in my opinion. My personal favorite is one of me playing in a recital where the photographer's child was making faces into the camera while I played. I have been unsuccessful in getting that one off the internet. And no, I will not give you a link!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-12-29 00:47
This is what separates live performance from recorded performance - with live and unrecorded, any errors are over and done with and the rest is resigned to a distant memory.
Whereas with any recorded performance, everything done at the time is on the record so it's always available and open to endless scrutiny including any errors that were made.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-12-29 01:09
Ken,
I know exactly to whom you are referring to on youtube. Her videos drive me absolutely nuts and she can't even be bothered to clean her desk for recordings.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2013-12-28 21:52
Ken got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. It certainly wasn't perfect, but I enjoyed most of the playing and the overall effort. The Bb players I thought sounded pretty decent. The tone, intonation and dynamics were good. They tried to make a more varied video presentation via the use of a single camera by interposing some stills, but hey.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-12-29 04:07
I'm glad other people think her videos are terrible. I attended a master class with Michael Collins when I was a student. She proceed to question Michael over a point and tell him that she knew better (when if course she didn't). Anyway...
The ensemble was ok for what is essentially an amateur group, intonation wasn't ok. The group was too bass heavy and the Bbs had your typical tight sound that amateurs can be prone to making. Was a conductor really needed? Imo he added nothing to the performance.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2013-12-29 04:24
Please elaborate on what you described as "your typically tight sound that amateurs can be prone to making." What does that mean? Is a loose sound superior?
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-12-29 04:54
It's the type of sound that people get through biting. To my ear the player playing the (I assume) 1st part had no flexibility in her sound/tone. This is a combination of tight embouchure and an extremely high tongue position. For my English ears that seems to be the norm in the US. A loose sound is also a no no really so finding something that is the middle ground that allows the player to be able to shape the tone and give colour to the tone.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-29 07:23
I enjoyed the performance. Wish we could get a Clarinet choir together around here and play pieces like that.
It's so easy to be critical. If you want to hear 'top notch' performances go buy yourself an expensive ticket to a professional concert someplace.
Otherwise , just explore UTube and enjoy the whole spectrum of musical performance from the good, the bad, and the ugly.
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2013-12-29 07:45
I suspect only the top very tiny percentage of all clarinet players are of the level of cigleris. They have earned the right to be critical. The other side of the coin is that music is an art and different folks enjoy different styles of playing. Some of us enjoy "tight", some "loose", some in between. Depends on the music, mood, and style preferences. I thought the style of that particular piece lent itself to tightness (precision) in both tone and rhythm. The tightness of tone was there; the togetherness of rhythm not so much and could have been better. This reminds me of the gestapo-like belief that there shalt never be clarinet vibrato, however so slight, in classical music a la Richard Stoltzman.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-29 03:27
I got up grumpy, but, as I said, my high school band played a lot better than that. I picked out just two of the innumerable rotten clams.
It's perfectly fine to sight-read through something like that (which the Eb player is clearly doing). It's *not* OK to expect it to be an advertisement for yourselves on YouTube.
At a minimum, a competent conductor should be able to give a downbeat that everybody can follow.
Peter - The tone, particularly of the first chair player, is unpleasant and pinched to these American ears, too.
Ken Shaw
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Author: brycon
Date: 2013-12-29 04:04
What is up with crapping on videos by amateur players and educators? If you think their playing sucks, post a comment on youtube. Of course, if every crappy video was removed from the ether of the internet, there would be only 20 or so left...
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-29 11:03
Cxgreen. I actually recognized the tune, so it's a start. Next time they play perhaps they'd tune a bit better. Or as several of the comments stated , maybe they were just trying to play Charles Ives or John Cage and doing a good job of it
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2013-12-29 11:05)
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2013-12-29 08:32
>>I was expecting something more like this:
>>http://youtu.be/THSsaIvBgDM (brace yourselves and your ears!)
That was pretty amazing and did make me laugh
But we're all on a spectrum from awful to sublime, although hopefully moving in the right direction
The problem is that our critical faculties are normally more developed than our musical abilities. I can hear a great player and make (semi-)valid criticisms but I know I'll never actually be that good
Here's a toast to bad musicians: may they persevere, enjoy playing music and increase the joy in the world
Happy 2014 everyone!
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-12-29 16:54
Ed wrote,
>It seems that often no matter what the performance quality, there are people commenting on what a great job it is.>
I strongly suspect that some of those comments come from the performers, their mommies, their daddies and their best friends, using dfferent log-ins. There's social pressure to comment favorably when friends, relatives or frequent contributors to chat sites proudly post their selfies. That's especially likely when someone posting a poor-quality video has also posted information about mental or physical illness. The performer may not consciously intend to manipulate readers into attending a pity-party, but ... it happens. I notice that nobody's named names above, when discussing one particularly active YouTuber, and I think we're probably right to show mercy. I've just stopped clicking on her links.
In the meantime, though, I'm glad we've got YouTube. Despite the occasional social awkwardness, I enjoy the variety.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2013-12-29 17:28
Lelia Loban wrote:
> I've just stopped clicking on her links.
As did I, and I'm guessing many other people, especially in the light of the reaction to some well-intentioned criticism early on. While this person finds it therapeutic to post the videos, I think that there is a downside to this kind of video promoted as a "teaching video". But this person is most certainly not alone ... There are companies purporting to be professional that aren't much better.
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2013-12-29 20:17
Too many serious musicians are taking other people's music too seriously.
If that clarinet choir was performing at a retirement home, the audience would have loved it. If the clarinet choir I play in played it like that, most of the members would have been very happy; only the ones with music degrees might have been frowning.
As for the video cited by Cxgreen, the boy's band in the Music Man comes to mind. But it is possible that the video band is for beginners whose only music eduation comes from what they learn one-class-per-week in school - which is not uncommon in areas where most people cannot afford music lessons.
George Libman
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-12-30 01:15
I got a particularly nasty private message from someone on youtube in regards to this video that I posted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfeTfI4WDyY
I was just having some fun after doing some prelim woodshedding. Oh well, I'm just am amateur myself. :P
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
Post Edited (2013-12-30 01:21)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-30 07:29
James -
Pretty good for a left-handed player on a left-handed clarinet.
Obviously it's not performance-ready, but I liked your tone and smooth technique. I can't imagine what the critic objected to.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2013-12-30 09:38
Ken Shaw quote :- "I can't imagine what the critic objected to".
Excessive body movement ?
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