 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2013-11-27 20:54
I currently play second clarinet in our local small town band. I've done so for the past 3 years. I'm getting more and more frustrated because it's very seldom I (or the first clarinet for that matter) play any part that can be heard above the brass and percussion sections. Other than being a part of something greater than myself, I almost feel what's the use, no one can hear me anyway.
It's not that I can't play loudly. In fact, my last teacher had me play with less volume; I can play loudly when I need to.
If our community had a woodwinds ensemble, I'd join it, but it does not. The nearest is 25 miles one way, so unless I'm willing to drive that distance, if I'm to play with a group, I must just live with my current situation.
I'm almost to the point of just resigning and playing the clarinet just for the enjoyment of it. I don't wish to give it up entirely.
Do all band clarinetists go through this stage? Am I not looking at it right?
Any advice will be appreciated.
CarlT
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-11-27 21:38
Speak to the director. He/she should make sure the group is balanced.
AAAClarinet
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-11-27 22:12
One thing to do is find a community orchestra to play in. Orchestra playing is very different from band playing for a clarinetist. The most obvious difference (other than the body of standard repertoire involved) is that you're responsible for your own part - most orchestras these days, pro or amateur, don't double the non-string parts, so you're the only one playing a wind part.
Karl
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Author: Katfish
Date: 2013-11-27 23:36
The last band I played in, the director constantly had the clarinets play softer.(6-8 of us). I guess it depends on the group.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-11-28 01:16
CarlT -
Everyone goes through this stage. In bands -- particularly amateur ones -- everyone plays as loud as possible. There's little you an do about it except find a better band. The director can tell the brass and percussion to keep it down, but that lasts only a few minutes.
25 miles is not far to drive, particularly if someone else from your town is also a member of the wind ensemble.
If you have the right players, you can form a woodwind quintet, quartet or trio. There are also lots of good clarinet duos, trios and quartets. I took up recorder seriously and found flutists, oboists, violinists, cellists and harpsichordists to play with. The switch from clarinet is easy, and there are excellent, inexpensive plastic recorders (the Yamaha 300 series) to use.
If you stay with the band, modify your goal. Concentrate on blending with everyone and supporting the entire section. There's satisfaction in that, too. The best group members radiate friendship and make everyone around them feel good.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-11-28 01:18)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-11-28 05:13
Some community bands have directors that seem to focus on the section that play the same instrument as the director. Also, it is very common for these bands to be directed by a brass player who is less interested in the woodwinds. Perhaps you could try the drive for 25 miles for a limited time to see if it makes sense.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-28 07:03
You need to bear in mind that your clarinet sound is only a part of the blended sound of the whole band, and that what you hear sitting in 2nd clarrie is not what the audience will hear. You're listening for 1 instrument, they are hearing the whole band. That being said, everything written above about brass-centric directors is true!
Tony F.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-11-28 07:53
I second, third and fourth what's been written about brass directors...
HOWEVER, I recently attended a concert by a highest-class concert band, and I was amazed at how balanced their sections were. Friend of mine who's playing tuba there said yes, they'd been working on "sound" for the better part of four years now, and finally it began to pay off.
One problem with brass is that they cannot hear themselves directly but only via reflection, quite unlike us woodwinds. So they sound a lot louder in the audience than what the players individually believe. It may help to record the rehearsal every so often so that each player has an idea what it sounds like when sitting in the audience. But that requires open minds and focus towards a common goal.
In the meantime, don't try to be heard individually (a futile task anyway), but work towards a fatter sound in your section - not necessary louder, but with more air and more presence. It may also help to talk to the small brass - even they might welcome qualified feedback...
--
Ben
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-28 13:38
I wonder if you and the other clarinetists could talk (or e-mail) among yourselves and come up with some specific repertory suggestions for music that gives the clarinets more interesting stuff to do. Maybe point the director toward YouTube performances of Big Band era swing?
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2013-11-28 13:40)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-11-28 14:12
> Maybe point the director toward YouTube performances of Big Band era swing?
Could as well be that the small woodwinds are then relegated to "decorative" (musical and optical) tasks while Trumpets and Trombones get the juicy bits. BTDTGTT...I rarely felt so redundant as when we were playing "Big Band" stuff.
--
Ben
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2013-11-28 14:38
If you have enough clarinet players, start your own clarinet group. A number of years ago, six of us from a community band who played clarinet started meeting weekly to play clarinet music that members of the group purchased. We rotated meeting sites among our homes, and we would meet if 3 or more people could get together. Music varied from trios to sextets, and we doubled parts if necessary. Each session ended with refreshments provided by the host.
Admittedly, none of us took clarinet as seriously as many of the people who post on this board. We played for our own enjoyment; not because we had dreams of being 1st clarinet in a major orchestra. We never had performances; it was just a social gathering where we played. One of our members was a retired music teacher who brought musical knowledge to the group in case questions arose.
We rotated parts after each piece; so people who normally played only clarinet 3 parts had a chance to play clarinet 1. Some of them were hesitant at first; then they realized they could play the parts. For most of us, this get-together was the only practice we did outside of band. I learned how to play music without beating my foot while practicing with this group.
Bass clarinet parts were usually played on a regular clarinet. A couple of us had basses, but we didn't want to be limited to those parts for the entire session.
Not one of these sessions was ever interrupted by loud brass players.
George
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2013-11-28 21:54
Thanks to all who responded. Your advice is appreciated more than you'll know. I will try some of these suggestions. I might even see about joining the group that's 25 miles away sooner or later. For now I'll likely stick it out.
My band has only 25 to 28 members at any given time, with only 2 clarinets, so the idea of starting our own group is out, although it would've been a great idea otherwise.
Maybe I'll talk with the director about getting some music that the woodwinds can shine in, too. Also, if I handle it right, he might be receptive to attempting to have the louder sections play more softly when appropriate (I realize this would require constant reminding the culprits on his part, but even a little let up would help).
Even with the loudness problem, I still enjoy the comradery of the band as a whole, so I will try toleration a bit more so I don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
CarlT
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-11-29 11:33
I suggested,
> Maybe point the director toward YouTube performances of Big Band era swing?>
Ben wrote,
>>Could as well be that the small woodwinds are then relegated to "decorative" (musical and optical) tasks while Trumpets and Trombones get the juicy bits. BTDTGTT...I rarely felt so redundant as when we were playing "Big Band" stuff. >>
Really? That would have been news to Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Dori
Date: 2013-11-30 17:09
> Ben wrote:
I rarely felt so redundant as when we were playing "Big Band" stuff.
> Leila Loban wrote:
Really? That would have been news to Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman.
Both these quotes have some merit. Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman were playing solos. For the rest of the band, I have to agree with Ben. In the Big Band arrangements I have played, the clarinet parts - if there were any - doubled the saxes or trumpets. One director explained that the clarinets were not the "right" sound so we should let the saxes come out stronger.
Of course there were some pieces that wanted the sax player to switch to clarinet for a few measures, but generally the clarinets were not important on their own.
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2013-12-02 00:03
Ask your band director if the band could play Amparita Roca. It's GREAT fun for the solo and first clarinets (forget 2nd and 3rd clarinet parts in your case). Challenging and you get to shine! I play in a couple of different groups here in town. In one case, we get our music from the local college. In another case, the director was a college band director so we play the music he used way-back-when. This works out well, but we get tired of the same old music year after year. For small bands with a limited budget, where does the band come by its music?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-12-02 02:17
I recently had a student come to his lesson with his second clarinet part to Amparita Roca. I hadn't played it in a really long time and had only ever played the first part. That 2nd clarinet part made me sure the composer must have been a French horn player taking revenge on the poor 2nd (and 3rd) clarinets.
He (Jaime Teixidor) was actually a saxophonist (13 years in Spanish army bands) and pianist and played violin well enough to teach it along with piano. I guess someone has to play all the backtime.
Karl
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2013-12-02 20:38
Roxann wrote, "For small bands with a limited budget, where does the band come by its music?".
That's an excellent question. Our band was formed several years before I was a member, and when I joined 3 years ago, we had a lot of music, but I don't know how that originally happened. Now that you've piqued my interest, I intend to find out. It may well be that I need to "chip in", but I was never told to do so.
The members make up some money at the end of the year for a nice Christmas gift for our director, and I believe he must take some of that to buy new music, for he does come up with new material from time to time. The older stuff does get a bit tiresome.
As for Amparita Roca...sounds waaay to difficult for our amateuric talents, but thanks anyway. I will, however, see if it's on YouTube or one of the music onlines that allow audio samples before totally ruling it out.
CarlT
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Author: BandEE
Date: 2013-12-02 22:46
Amparita Roca isn't as hard as it sounds. Back when I joined our local band after a 30 year layoff, one of the first Eb parts I got was this march. Eb is pretty much the first Bb part. It was a great ego booster to actually cut the part.
Bandmusicpdf.org has a lot of public domain band music. Much of it has old instrumentation (Eb brass, sax horns, etc.) but you can find good, playable, music there for a community band, and it's free!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-03 11:34
Back when it was affordable (1950s), even high school bands had big libraries of standard literature. I know that most of these have been sold off, but there are probably some still available for the cost of hauling away.
If anyone knows a source, I'd like to hear about it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-12-03 13:21
I'm not sure why a high school with a still-active band program would be selling off or giving away any of its library. But, when amateur or even per-service pro groups go under, their libraries remain somewhere. They tend to stay with whoever had possession of the music when the group dissolved.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-03 14:08
Karl -
When high school music programs were pretty much eliminated a few years back, there was lots of music from no-longer-existing bands to get rid of.
Ken Shaw
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-12-03 17:06
I live in Bucks County - I don't know of any high schools here that have eliminated their band programs - they all still have football teams so they need bands to play at halftime. Some programs in this area have been weakened - my son is the high school band director in a nearby school district, and his band has lost all of its funding for travel. His funding to maintain and repair school-owned instruments, which are lent to kids whose families can't otherwise afford one, have also been heavily cut. Thankfully, though, his program and all others I know about in our area are still intact. I'm surprised to hear that other high schools outside of my immediate area, have been eliminated. Our school boards in their infinite wisdom more often try to cut the programs in the lower grade levels, not understanding that high school players have to come from somewhere.
But I agree, if a district were to eliminate its band program, that school district would be a great source of music materials.
Karl
Post Edited (2013-12-03 17:07)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-12-03 21:36
Don't inflict the 2nd or 3rd clarinet parts in Amparita Roca on anyone!
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-12-03 21:41
Wes - as one who has suffered through the 3rd clarinet part - PLEASE DON'T!
Gary K
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-12-04 00:21
Ask any (French) horn player. Even the first chair plays endless (oom) pah pahs, with (oom) pah for variety.
From my band experience, few high school 2nd or 3rd clarinet players can cut more than eighth notes with the odd 16ths, and the 3rds not very many of them. You have to get up to, say, the U. of Michigan Band or the military Special Bands before you have capable players all the way down. Or at least that's the way it was when I was doing it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2013-12-04 01:37
The community band that I personally playing. has a huge roster of players. I might have missed it but what is the instrumentation that is there. Our group in the woodwind section has on average 12 Bb clar (2 doubling on Ebsop) , 3 to 4 Bass Clr 1 contra BBb clar, 8 to 10 flutes, 2 tnoro sax, 1 bari, rough 5+ altos.
That plays with 14 trmpt, 12 tbone 4 euphonium and 4 to 5 tubas
If you have a very small clarinet section maybe reach out to others to come and play with the group.
Even with roughly 90 members on stage at any given concert we work to balance the sound out across our band.
Don't give up, keep playing and have fun.
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2013-12-15 21:04
Playing second part is like mayonnaise. You're not the meat and cheese, but you make the whole sandwich taste better.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-12-15 23:23
Johnny, I'll have to write that down. And it's more than just taste - it holds the whole contraption together.
For those who bemoan the (oom) pah pah and other subjectively nauseous parts - always bear in mind, that Concert Band is a Team Event. It won't work unless everyone, every single one, is willing to trade in two seconds of solo work for seven minutes of team fame.
Here's what we've done (some 50 of us, strict amateurs from 16..76) together: https://soundcloud.com/harmoniewollishofen/west-side-story.
Besides, the performance is just the icing on the cake. What's underneath I like at least as much.
--
Ben
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Author: FDF
Date: 2013-12-15 23:40
Ben,
Well done! One of my favorite musicals, and not that easy for amateurs to play. Also, whoever recorded the event did a pro job. Your director must be quite good at leading productive rehearsals. The dynamics are very good.
Congrats to you and your entire band.
Forest
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-12-15 23:47
Forest,
thanks for the kind words. :-)
The recording was done by me, or rather a Zoom H2. All I did was (in Audacity) normalize and cut with a bit of fade-in and fade-out. A two minute job per piece. These devices are priceless, really.
--
Ben
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