 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dibble
Date: 2013-11-16 12:33
I was wondering if short 12ths in the right hand of a bass clarinet can be remedies by undercutting. I am borrowing a RC prestige bass clarinet (old one) that has really short 12ths and was thinking a tech might be able to remedy the situation. Help?!!
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-16 13:27
By "short twelfths" I assume you mean the clarion twelfths are flat compared to the chalumeau.
I'm not a tech, but I do have a C clarinet that had a similar problem, though it wasn't limited to RH notes. Neither the instrument's manufacturer nor my local tech, who is excellent, was able to fix the problem with anything as easy or straightforward as undercutting. I finally had to ship it to Morrie Backun, who had read postings I'd put here and offered to see what he could do. He did succeed in resolving most of the problem and making the instrument very playable, and I'm very grateful to him, but the work he did was much more involved than some simple undercutting.
Undercutting, fwiw, in general will raise the pitch of a given fingering and free up the fingering's response (remove resistance). But for a given fingering it affects all harmonics *in the same direction.* So, undercutting the RH 3rd finger tone hole to raise E5 will also raise and free A3. Not necessarily to the same degree, but still, both notes will be higher. Intuitively, I don't think you can get to a point where the twelfth is accurate without making both notes so high they don't work with the rest of the clarinet. And eventually the added freedom of response turns into wildness that can make the notes hard to control.
Again, intuitively (I don't know enough about instrument acoustics to be confident), the size of the twelfths or any of the other harmonic intervals probably has more to do with the bore shape than the tone holes themselves. When you start playing with the bore, you risk unintended consequences that you may regret.
I'd say, if the problem is enough that it can't be humored with embouchure or voicing adjustments or a different mouthpiece, don't buy it (if that's what you're considering, though you didn't say so). Whether or not you can fix a serious intonation problem like this is a crap shoot, and the odds may be better at the table.
Karl
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Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2013-11-16 18:12
Register tube issue?
Best to do a complete tuning chart of the instrument and look at the instrument as a whole. Then focus on the notes that are unworkable.
Steve Ocone
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-11-16 21:19
It's my experience that when you do something to a tone hole, like undercutting, it will effect both the high and low note equally. So if it results in making one note a bit sharper it will do the same to the other. It may be a problem with the bore. probably the best thing to do if you really want to find out if something can be done is to contact Backun as recommended above. He plays bass and is a great tech with tuning and everything else clarinet wise. You have to ask the expert.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-11-16 22:22
Please refer to Clark Fobes papers on undercutting before making statements on the effects of undercutting.
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Author: dibble
Date: 2013-11-16 22:53
I would not do work on a borrowed horn myself. If something could be done by a tech, I'd ask permission from the owner first, then if affordable, pay for the work.
Eddie, If I can recall the Fobes article, undercutting does not raise the fundamental and the 12th evenly. If this is true, this procedure may make a great sounding, yet bad tuning instrument playable, for the 12ths are flat and the fundamentals are sharp.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-11-18 01:43
There are far better ways to mitigate (I won't say 'eliminate' because it may not be possible) the problem than with tonehole undercutting.
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