 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetdad94
Date: 2013-11-01 17:15
Hi, everyone.
I am new to the Clarinet BBoard. I searched clarinet information and found this board.
First, I don't know anything about clarinet. As you can see my email address, I am an actuary. I am dealing with a lot of difficult numbers not beautiful sound. Hence, I need an expert advice.
Here is my situation.
My son is a 6th grader and has played clarinet for 2 years. He is a good player and a section leader in 7th grade band even though he is a 6th grader. He is using Yamaha YCL-250 student clarinet right now. He wants a wooden clarinet and I bought a new Buffet R-13 silver key from ebay for his Christmas present (he doesn't know I bought this clarinet yet).
The original buyer was a professional player and he didn't use it because he needs urgent money, I believe. He spent more than $4,000 for this clarinet (clarinet: $3,449, Moennig Barrel: $225 including artist selection fee, artist hand selection fee: $200 and setup fee: $300). I bought this clarinet less than half of his purchasing price.
The clarinet is a genuine one confirmed by my local music store (Paige's Music in Indianapolis) and the original selling store in East Coast.
Is this clarinet too good for a 6th grader? If you have a kid, do you give it to him or buy an intermediate clarinet and sell this R-13? Thanks.
Post Edited (2013-11-01 18:26)
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Author: TJTG
Date: 2013-11-01 17:25
I have two worries, and one is hand size. Student clarinets are often modified to be easier to play with smaller hands. Key positions and some of the fingered tone holes will feel different of different models and varying skill-level instruments.
The second worry is a child's ability to take care of the instrument. Will he leave it in the car overnight in winter? Or in the car for 30 minutes on a 100 degree summer day. It would severely increase the risk of damage to the wood.
But.... If the clarinet is well maintained over the years I think it would be a blessing to have it early on, but with the one caveat, that they are sometimes more difficult to play at first. A student to professional upgrade may feel more resistant or respond differently.
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-11-01 18:05
Some concerns:
Wooden clarinets can be much heavier than plastic instruments. Can he handle the extra weight?
Wooden Clarinets need much more care than plastic instruments. They must not be exposed to extremes of temperature, and should never be played outdoors during football season. They must also be swabbed out after every use. Will his band director give him time to do this at the end of class?
Is there a secure (and temperate) place at school to store the instrument?
I wouldn't worry about hand size. I find professional clarinets much more ergonomic than student instruments.
Personally, I don't care for any intermediate models. Luckily, clarinets are cheap compared to most other instruments so there is really no need for them.
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-11-01 18:11
As long as he will take great care of the clarinet, excellent choice. Should serve him well.
AAAClarinet
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-01 18:30
The main reason, IMO, that people buy "intermediate" clarinets for young-ish students is that they are less expensive that the top level clarinets. Having a really good clarinet to play on can do nothing but make playing easier for your son and allow him to make the best progress he's capable of. He should get advice from a knowledgeable clarinetist (does he have a private teacher?) about care of the clarinet and understand clearly that it's a high level piece of equipment that needs to be treated carefully. In my experience this is *not* beyond most 6th graders' understanding.
That said, don't sell the Yamaha - assuming he'll be playing in a program that includes some marching (parades in middle school, football games and parades in high school) he needs something other than the R13 to use for those situations, both because of the possibly poor playing conditions (cold, hot, rain) and because it's sometimes hard in an outdoor situation with lots of moving around to treat the instrument as carefully. The R13 should be played in indoor, controlled sit-down situations where the likelihood of accidents is lower. There should be somewhere lockable to keep it when he isn't using it in school - most middle and high schools provide lockers for students to store books and outdoor clothing in - and he should bring it home with him each day, not leave it, even in a locker, at school overnight.
By the way, if the "original player" (I assume you mean the original owner) paid that much for the barrel and "selection fees," I'm not sure what to think. New Buffet-Moennig barrels are closer to $150, and if he is a professional player, there should have been no need for him to have had someone else hand-select a barrel or the instrument. Whether or not the $300 for setup was well-spent depends a lot on who did the setup work. My only point in saying all this is that, if you were to decide to sell this R13 (which I don't advise), you won't get much more for it than it sounds like you actually paid for it - certainly not the $4,000 plus the seller said it cost.
Karl
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Author: clarinetdad94
Date: 2013-11-01 19:42
Thank you for your advice, everyone. All are really helpful information.
The store in east coast (Professional Wind Instrument Consultants of NJ) is really nice giving me more information about this clarinet and initial break-in instructions.
If I give this to my son, he will not take it to school until maybe he become a 9th grader because we cannot control the climate in which it is played, and of course the conduct of his fellow students who might not be as careful with their instruments as my son would be with his new clarinet.
He will use Yamaha during school and use R13 at home and a private lesson (he has a private teacher).
Also he will not join a marching band but will join a high school orchestra which is very famous in our state.
I don't know why the original owner asked someone else to select this clarinet even though he said he is a professional player. I guess he is too far from Buffet store so he asked someone else (Mark Nuccio of the New York Philharmonic) to select this clarinet? Is Kristin Bertrand a good setup/adjustment person? Thanks.
Post Edited (2013-11-01 19:53)
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-11-02 12:45
Is Kristin Bertrand a good setup/adjustment person?
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Yes
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Author: shrdlu
Date: 2013-11-02 16:37
New here, but my 2 cents...
As a parent of another 6th grader who plays at school, I'd suggest that no matter how well-behaved and conscientious your own child is, you can not control his classmates. So I would suggest that if you think your child is mature enough to take care of an expensive instrument, then leave it at home and let him play it at home. When he gets older and plays at school, then get a Buffet B12 for school (this seems to be a recommended instrument for school and a step up from a Yamaha student model), as it will handle temperature changes better.
Having taken instruments home in the winter and during rainy days (in a good case), the instrument is still exposed to more weather than what you would want a nice wooden instrument exposed to. Add in children accidently bumping your child and knocking all their belongings out of their hands during the day, band members knocking instruments off of stands when the bell rings, etc., and you will probably want a less expensive instrument going to school, no matter what the grade. Also, while the children have lockers, they have little time to spend at their lockers. I've seen band members struggle to shove their band instrument cases into too-little lockers. I wound up putting 3 additional shelves in my child's locker so that belongings wouldn't get crushed or dumped on the floor while looking for a particular book that was buried under band stuff, P.E. stuff, 5 textbooks, 2 large notebooks, a jacket, a book bag, and stack of notebooks. In other words, your child might not have time to be very careful with his expensive clarinet when the bell is ringing and he is worried about being late for class...or if a child pushes him while in the hall. Then, if something does happen to his instrument while at school, it will be a mild disaster instead of a major disaster.
Another consideration is that there are many times, when picking up a child from school, that we have to go somewhere else (doctor or dental appointments, a quick run to get food or groceries, etc.) and the band instrument might have to be left in the car. (I am assuming that your child does not ride a school bus, as riding on a bus would not be safe for an expensive instrument.)
At least that is my plan...plastic instruments for school and nicer one for home.
p.s. Thanks for all the seasoned players for posting here, as I have learned a lot reading the forums. Any time I have had a question on an instrument, this forum has popped up in the search engine results.
Post Edited (2013-11-02 17:00)
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Author: shrdlu
Date: 2013-11-02 16:39
Sorry, duplicate post and I don't see a delete button.
Post Edited (2013-11-02 16:58)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-02 20:22
If what you have said and been told is all true it sounds like you did OK....especially for a Carmel Actuary. (nice town). What I would do: Keep the R13 for the future, you won't lose any money on it. Consider moving him up within the Yamaha line or just let him keep playing the 250. He's evidently doing OK with what he already has. Ask him his opinion.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-11-03 03:39
Had you asked before buying the clarinet, I might have recommended that you wait. Your son is still young and his interests may change dramatically over the next few years. Given that you have purchased the clarinet, however, I think your plan for using it is a good one. Letting your son have a first-rate clarinet for private lessons and the youth orchestra, may give him a greater incentive to work hard. Having him play the plastic clarinet at school is also, IMO, wise -- especially if high school band becomes more a social activity than a musical one.
And, FWIW, IMO the Buffet B12 is not a step-up compared to a Yamaha YCL-250. At best, they are equivalent. If I had to choose, personally I would choose the Yamaha. IMO, their student instruments (not just clarinets) are outstanding.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2013-11-04 15:57
Can I butt in with a question of my own here please?
I played the clarinet briefly at the age of 16 but only to grade 1 level.
Now at the age of 75 I have bought a clarinet and have started taking lessons from a private tutor. At the moment I am coming up to grade 2 level and reading music (poorly) although my sounds sometimes upset the local feline population.
I have a Buffet B12 with a B45 mouthpiece and at times I can produce a decent tone. I am obviously old enough to know about taking care of an instrument and don't plan to play outside (or anywhere in public).
Would I get any benefit at all from treating myself to a wooden instrument, for example an E13 or a Yamaha? I assume that I would perhaps not see any difference in tone at my level but would it help at all? Would it perhaps be of negative value and harm my progress? Finance would not be too much of a problem and at my age comments about waiting 5 years will be of little value and I know that I will never be able to progress to anything near performance level.
It seems that it would be nice for me to own a really nice instrument but my concern is that I wouldn't actually be able to play it.
What do you think?
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 17:49
Have you tried your teacher's clarinet?
A "wooden" instrument in itself won't necessarily make any difference at all and, in fact, may not be any higher quality than your B12. If by "wooden" you're implying a top-level ("professional") model, there will almost certainly be some advantages in ease of playing and sound production. Only you could judge whether they are meaningful enough to justify the expense. If you mean a student-market clarinet (entry level or "step-up") that is made of wood, it really depends on what specifically you're considering. Again, trying the instrument you decide to consider before buying it will tell you more than anyone's abstract opinion about whether you will feel enough advantage in comfort level to make the expenditure worthwhile.
There is no such thing, IMO, as an instrument that is so good that you "wouldn't actually be able to play it." Your results on a better instrument will certainly not be less pleasing than on your current one. The only question is whether or not you will find enough advantage in the benefits.
My personal opinion in nearly every case is that the higher the quality of the instrument, the greater the player's potential for improvement and personal satisfaction. So, my advice would (nearly) always be to buy the best level instrument you can afford comfortably (don't mortgage the house or spend the whole retirement account). Your teacher may be a good source of information and may be able to help locate instruments to try so you can avoid shipping trial instruments back and forth from online sources, which is another way to try before buying.
Karl
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-11-04 19:09
Funfly: Having owned one of those horns previously I have nothing but disdain for them. I regularly play either a Buffet R13 wood clarinet or an old Bundy plastic horn and like them almost equally......and get about the same sound from both.
Since wood may crack even with good care you have to consider that. Your mouthpiece is probably the best part of your setup; I'd keep that. I'm 9 years older than you are.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2013-11-04 21:08
Bob, 9 years older…..that's cool and I bow to you.
Had a talk with my tutor tonight and she agreed that although it will do no harm, a good quality wood would be wasted on me.
But she does say go to the store and try a few. Based on the comments I will try an R13 but I haven't looked up the price yet ;-)
I am tempted because I value quality even if I just look at it, if that makes sense. I have a beautiful guitar and an equally beautiful banjo. Neither of which I do justice to or ever have done justice to. However they are in my lounge and fantastic to look at - I give them both a little 'feel' now and again!
It is too easy to feel that one could do better and blame an instrument but I think that with something really nice one it does force you to pay some sort of homage to it and build yourself up to what it is worth. Maybe I am just trying to justify getting one eh?
Persuading my wife - well that's another story.
I really do appreciate your help, this is my first time writing in this forum but I have been looking at the subjects for a while although I still don't know what reed would give me a perfect tone - live in hope.
Martyn
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2013-11-04 21:22
I now have to ask, what about 'Greenline'
If I had a choice should I buy an R13 in wood or Greenline - what's the difference from a players point of view assuming the price is the same?
Martyn
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-04 22:11
Ask a dozen players and you'll get a dozen opinions, some positive and some not. The best answer will still come from trying them yourself. They are certainly equal in every mechanical respect - both are high quality instruments.
Karl
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Author: FDF
Date: 2013-11-04 23:07
My rule of thumb, when you get better than your instrument, buy a new one.
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Author: MSK
Date: 2013-11-06 01:05
I am a clarinet player and also the parent of a fairly talented seventh grade clarinet student. I had the opportunity to purchase a high end intermediate wood clarinet dirt cheap and bought it for my son's future use. Presently he uses the plastic student model for marching and at school for the reasons listed above. He uses the good wood clarinet to practice at home. I do let him take it to school for indoor concerts. When he is older the good clarinet can go to school more regularly.
Don't even think of letting him march with anything other than a cheap plastic clarinet. Aside from the risk of wood cracking, there is the risk of the clarinet falling off the bleachers or onto the pavement.
Having chaperoned the middle school band kids, I definitely don't trust the good clarinet at school. Even if my kid is responsible, one never knows what the others will do. The other concern is that in the hurry to make it to the next class on time, the kids don't always swab the instrument carefully. That won't cause permanent damage the the body of a plastic instrument but will harm a wooden one with time.
Regarding instrument weight and tone hole size with the smaller player: my son is very small for his age (4' 8" & 77 lbs) and he has no trouble playing either his Evette & Schaeffer or my personal Buffet R13
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-11-06 03:06
Not that a lot of the advice about the dangers of using a good clarinet in school aren't well-taken, but the OP has already eliminated marching as a concern:
"Also he will not join a marching band but will join a high school orchestra which is very famous in our state."
Karl
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2013-11-06 19:50
Well I'm off to look at second hand this weekend. Nice looking R13 1954 available. Will. Try a few out of course.
Will let you know if I part with any money.
Martyn
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2013-11-06 21:02
This is what I am looking at this coming Sunday. Any prefer's don't before I visit?
BUFFET CRAMPON R13 Bb CLARINET 1954
YAMAHA SE CUSTOM Bb CLARINET, CHARLES COLLECTION 1994
SELMER PARIS, RECITAL Bb CLARINET 1984
SELMER, PARIS, ARTYS Bb CLARINET, 1994
SELMER, PARIS, 10S II Bb CLARINET 1988
YAMAHA CSG CUSTOM, HAMILTON KEYS, 2009
Martyn
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2013-11-06 21:37
Sorry I got the date wrong it should have been 1955
This is the blurb, is this possible or is it bul sh*t?
A very fine condition vintage Buffet R13…. The matching serial nos. are 51013 which dates to 1955. Back then this was the finest professional instrument Buffet made, with unstained, matched wood.
Mart
Martyn Thatcher Mature Student Cheshire U.K.
Clarinet - Yamaha SE Custom
Alto Sax - Yamaha YAS 480
Guitar - Yamaha FG 375-S
Post Edited (2013-11-06 21:39)
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Author: joe423
Date: 2013-11-08 20:01
What is this "famous youth orchestra"? I live in Indiana so i'm curious!
1975 Buffet R13 Bb Clarinet
1968 Buffet R13 A Clarinet
Pyne Clarion Mouthpiece
Vandoren V12 3.5 Reeds
Vandoren Optimum Ligature
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Author: FDF
Date: 2013-11-08 23:00
You made a decision to buy a good clarinet for your son, live with it.
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Author: Funfly
Date: 2013-11-11 15:40
After trying a number of second hand clarinets on Sunday, I finally bought a Yamaha SE 1997
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