 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-09-22 13:15
Hello all,
I recently purshaced and restored a buffet full boehm A clarinet and I am trying to decide if I should sell it or not. Everything on the clarinet is normal, except for the fact that it has 11 cracks! All of them have been repaired, but is this a bad sign for the future of the clarinet? Is this a sign that the wood is of bad quality. Also if it plays well does it really matter?
Thanks.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-22 13:38
If the cracks have been repaired well and show no signs of opening up, then it shouldn't be an issue - especially if it plays well. Cracks aren't the end of the world - they're an inconvenience, but can be repaired successfully.
I've got a '60s full Boehm Buffet Bb where the top joint has split down the front and back from the top tenon to about 2/3rds the way down and through to the bore, but it has previously been pinned and I've also carbon fibre banded it in four places, so it's not likely to open up in a hurry.
My old Selmers have bells that split into two or three pieces, but they've been glued back together - I might carbon fibre band them as well. The top joint on the Bb had cracked right through to the bore between the trill toneholes, but that was pinned back in around 1989 and hasn't opened since.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2013-09-22 16:10
I have a colleague who plays Brahms and Schumann on an original Bb clarinet from around 1879, made by a student of Ottensteiner. It has 37 cracks in its upper joint but still works.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-09-22 16:23
Ralph McLane's A clarinet cracked constantly. Hans Moennig tried everything he could think of to stabilize it, but it was constantly in his shop.
It was also the best A clarinet ever. I heard Harold Wright play the Brahms Quintet on it many years ago, and I still remember the glorious tone.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2013-09-22 16:50
Wow, I'm really surprised by all the cracked instruments out there still being played regularly. Simon, are all the cracks in one area or spread out throughout the whole upper joint?
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Author: bethmhil
Date: 2013-09-22 17:02
My Tosca is cracked in 4 places on the upper joint, but it still plays absolutely beautifully.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-22 18:02
Some instruments play much better or much freer after they've split as the tension in the timber has been released. But if a crack goes through a tonehole, that will cause grief but in most cases cracks terminate in toneholes and won't spread any further.
You have to take it in your stride - do everything you can to maintain your instruments well, but do be prepared if they split. It may not happen, but there is always the chance it will one day. I recently repaired two Buffets that had cracked - one of them was a DG which only cracked recently and these have been out of production for some time, as well as an RC Prestige that wasn't all that old.
My oboe teacher mentioned a repairer she knew put a jewellers' saw cut in the body for a crack to terminate into, then fills it in. I've drilled blind holes for cracks to terminate in when there aren't any toneholes in their path.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-09-22 21:15
Think about this: Laminated wood beams are stronger than natural timber ones.
Natural wood can have stresses in it and until they are removed.....one way or another......additional cracks can occur. As long as the horn plays the way you want it to keep it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-09-23 01:46
Far to many, I would not trust it. to much trauma to the wood and bore.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: GaryH
Date: 2013-09-23 02:52
If it plays well, the intonation is acceptable, and you didn't pay too much for it, I'd keep it....at least for a year or so. Give it a chance. You may have a gem.
You can always sell it at a later date if you wish. By then you can give perspective buyers an honest evaluation of what you are trying to sell.
Post Edited (2013-09-23 02:52)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-09-23 03:59
>> Far to many, I would not trust it. <<
Trust it to do what...? He has it and can check how it plays etc. it's not like it's a gamble.
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Author: donald
Date: 2013-09-23 10:19
there are many stories etc of people playing for years on instruments with cracks, but i do understand the insecurity that you may feel. For many years I owned an R13 that cracked through a tone hole, and was twice repaired only to have the crack open up and continue up the instrument (yes, bad english but i think you know what i mean).
After some years, an very fine repair tech made a delrin tone hole insert (modelled on the existing tonehole) that replaced the compromised tone hole. This meant that even if the crack opened AGAIN, it would not cause an air leak (well, unless it cracked right through to the bore- which luckily never happend). This tone hole insert stopped me from worrying, and I sold that clarinet after playing it for 10 years (8 of those years with cracks).
It was bought by a teacher who sold it to his student- after test playing it he went into a rave about the "golden era" of Buffet and how my instrument demonstrated that the best clarinets were made in the 1960s/70s, until i pointed out to him my clarinet was from 1997! He claimed it was the best R13 he'd ever played....
dn
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-23 11:20
Attachment: dgprestigebushedtonehole 001.JPG (703k)
Attachment: dgprestigebushedtonehole 002.JPG (689k)
I usually bush toneholes as a matter of course if a crack runs into or through them - see attached photos of the Buffet DG which I carbon fibre banded and bushed the throat A tonehole (the delrin bush shows up best with the flash on).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-09-23 11:23)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-09-23 14:23
Elegant work, Chris. The new A hole pad seat looks so much better than the others that I wonder whether a complete set of liners would make a difference. On the flash shot, it looks like the liner goes only halfway down the chimney. Is that how you usually do it? Also, I assume the crack was only on the surface, and not lower down in the chimney.
Guy Chadash bores out upper joints and inserts a Delrin liner that re-creates the original R13 bore, plus as many Delrin tone hole chimneys as necessary.
Moennig lined Gigliotti's barrels with hard rubber.
The magic is in the bore and the pad sealing, not the material.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-09-23 15:36
Ken wrote: "The magic is in the bore and the pad sealing, not the material."
I agree with you, Ken, as do Tom Ridenour, the late Dr. Arthur Benade, and many others who have actually done some proper testing and/or research.
But there are a hundreds times more people who believe the opposite, that the body material has a significant audible effect on the sound of the clarinet; these people believe that only grenadilla (aka mpingo, etc.) sounds good. They are the vast majority. Those of us who disagree with them are (pardon the expression) pissing in the wind.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-09-23 15:56
Ken, it's best to inset the tonehole bushes fairly deep, but not as far as where the undercutting starts (down to around 1mm or so from it) so if the crack should open up again, it shouldn't cause any leaks where the pad seats. The crack in this instance had gone into the tonehole to a depth of 1.5-2mm, so it was bushed after the crack was filled in.
Also using thicker bushings provides more security against them dropping out - I've used prefabricated 2mm thick ebonite bushings in the past but found they popped out too easily after several years of use.
I initially made the crown of the bedplace sharp like the others, but as I'm using cork pads I didn't want such a sharp edge that could cut into the pad, so I flattened the top with abrasive glued to a levelling disc to make a wider rim which is why it looks pale.
On my old Selmers I bushed all the smaller toneholes with delrin as they were pretty rough, so not ideal for seating cork pads onto. Leblanc bushed all the smaller toneholes on their rosewood Symphony VII clarinets as standard and now Buffet are doing the same on their Divines (bushing them with Greenline material in this case).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-09-24 13:57)
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