 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: am0032
Date: 2013-08-16 02:30
I am looking to equip my clarinet section(about 10 players)with Zinner blank mouthpieces. What is the least expensive maker or way to make this happen? Thanks for your help.
Adam
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-08-16 03:11
I would guess the least expensive way would be to buy from Zinner - check his website at http://www.hans-zinner.de/html/bb-clarinet.html. You can choose a facing and one of three standard blanks - I think the "A" blank is the one most often used by American mouthpiece makers - it has parallel side walls and a "deep" baffle. You can a number of different facings.
In one FAQ answer, the implication is clear that they'd prefer you to buy from a local dealer - they will supply contact information. On the page called "Imprint," though, contact information is provided to place an order.
Of course, if this is a student section, you might want to consider less expensive mouthpieces meant for students by Clark Fobes and others. And you might think once more about the wisdom of asking all the players in the section to play on the same mouthpiece, no matter how good it is.
Karl
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-16 04:04
I agree with Karl 100%. Anatomy is destiny. No two players, let alone 10, have identical lips, tongues, teeth, jaws, soft palates or pharynxes. No mouthpiece will work for everyone.
For me, what works best is a free-blowing, slightly open mouthpiece and a medium-strength reed. I know I'm in a rather small minority. Others who try my setup can hardly play it at all, and one asked me how I could possibly play such a stiff reed.
There's nothing wrong, and a lot right, with giving each of your players a Fobes Debut. It's way ahead of, say, a plastic stock Yamaha at the same price. Just don't expect that all your players will like it or play their best with it. Insisting on identical equipment is a sure way to drive your kids away.
Ken Shaw
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Author: hgp_atx
Date: 2013-08-17 03:45
I vote with ken. I'm in high school currently and have a really good teacher. When upgrading my mouthpiece she had me try several different Brad Behn artist series mouthpieces. I found that every mouthpiece is different. I got a superb sound on one but the other two were noticably not as good. So I would recommend that you let your kids find what works for them because every mouth is shaped a slight bit different. Also my teacher found that the one I was least proficient on was her strong suit so the kids really need what works for them and not identical mouthpieces. Also if you want the section the best, you need to make sure to get each player a clarinet teacher. Generally a good teacher like mine will see to that that each kid has a good mouthpiece and equipment, etc. Also a teacher will show a student like me tricks to make playing the instrument easier and to catch bad habits that the student may not see.
Post Edited (2013-08-18 02:42)
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2013-08-17 13:30
Read the OP's message carefully: he wants Zinner *blanks*. Perhaps he is going to employ someone to work with the kids and put a facing on each mouthpiece that suits them.
Not a bad idea...
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-17 14:02
I don't read it that way, I think he's asking about the least expensive finished mouthpieces made from Zinner blanks.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2013-08-17 14:02)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-08-17 14:42
Sounds like the OP is saying "refaced zinners" for the lowest price.
The lowest price will generally be people without a website or big name.
The market on zinner-based mouthpieces ranges from around $195-375.
Expect to pay $1500+ for ten, although many would probably cut you a deal for that many at a time!
Mouthpieces directly from zinner sounds like a good idea, but don't forget there are wire-transfer fees and third party fees if you get a store to import them for you. Plus, the consistency and the facing style may very well not be to your liking (and the section won't sound as good). Hand-finishing by someone who knows what they're doing is usually better.
For consistency and quality control, regardless of price, Brad Behn is the best in my opinion. His price is on the low side of the market, but the craftsmanship is done by a true artist with attention to the last detail. What you would get from zinner is where he starts, providing the detailed work necessary to make a true artist quality mouthpiece. It's probable that he would be able to send more than 10 for people to try, so people could pick out the one they like best. You'd have to call him to check on quantity available already, but you shouldn't have a problem with that.
There are, of course, other people making zinner-based mouthpieces. Most are above the $195 range and vary in quality and design. Be cautious about ordering from zinner, you get what you pay for and you're stuck with it! Ordering from someone in the US a far safer idea to me. In addition, you get to talk to someone about your needs and they can provide you with the mouthpieces that will satisfy them.
It's safe to assume you're a clarinet player, so order a small batch from a handful of makers that are on the lower price-point and see what is highest quality sound, feel, and craftsmanship (usually all three are tied together!).
With this kind of order, it's very important to have a discussion with the maker so that you can communicate your needs and that they can find the best way to serve you.
Best of luck and feel free to post your research results on this quest!
Disclaimer: I have no business connection to Brad Behn and have nothing financially to gain from people purchasing his products.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-08-17 16:33
Adam can certainly clarify what he meant. If Zinner were a U.S. based company, I would have assumed buying mouthpieces directly would be the least expensive way. Adding shipping costs from Germany may make it worthwhile dealing with a U.S. distributor.
Out of curiosity, I sent an email to Zinner's contact address to ask about U.S. distributors and buying direct and got a reply back signed by Hans Zinner saying they are on vacation until August 26 and that "Emails will not be read frequently."
Of course, Walter Grabner, Clark Fobes, Greg Smith, I think Richard Hawkins (not sure about that) and others in the U.S. produce excellent mouthpieces in a variety of facings, each adding their own adjustments to the Zinner blanks. Conceivably, an arrangement of some kind could be made with any of them to have a variety of Zinner-based mouthpieces sent so the section members could try them individually and decide which felt best. You'd probably have to pay for everything that is sent with the understanding that any samples not chosen by anyone could be returned in mint condition and their cost either refunded or credited toward others that you'd finally order based on the kids' trial playings.
Karl
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2013-08-17 18:27
At the risk of sending a commercial post, and since my name was mentioned, my Intermezzo mouthpiece - intended for students, sells for $120, and is made from a Zinner blank.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2013-08-18 04:42
Ken and Karl are perceptive in emphasizing the importance of an individual's unique physiology. That said, I had two experiences with whole studios of university students that suggest that some brands of mouthpiece sound and play so much better than others, an entire studio of students can change to that brand of mpc (without my forcing it) and sound better, irrespective of physiology differences.
About 10 years ago I taught at a university a couple of hours outside of Montreal. Each clarinet student in the studio had an unpleasant sound. They were all playing on Vandoren mpcs.
Nathan wrote, "Expect to pay $1500+ for ten". That is exactly what I did. I ordered 10 mpcs for $1500 from a mpc-maker that uses Zinner blanks.
When I had the students try the Zinner-blank mpcs, *every* student sounded noticeably better. Some of the students sounded so much better, they thought I was tricking them! In some cases they thought I was substituting their reed for a better reed. When I showed them that it was their reed on the new mouthpiece, they were dumbstruck.
In the second case, last year in my studio at McGill, each student started the year on a Vandoren mpc. I had each of those students try a Rico Reserve mpc. In every case the student sounded *much* better.
Yes, physiology plays a part and has an effect. But in these two cases, it would appear one mpc's design was so much better than the other's, physiological differences did not minimize that confirmation.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-08-18 14:56
Since these were college clarinet studios, were the students already playing on Vandorens with similar facings?
I imagine it might complicate things a little if some are moving from M13-style tips and curves and others from B40-style facings. Had these students all been playing on Vandorens because of faculty encouragement that also included a facing preference?
Karl
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2013-08-19 04:59
>Since these were college clarinet studios, were the students already playing >on Vandorens with similar facings?
No. The facings ran the gamut: M13/15 up to M30 ,M30D and B40.
>I imagine it might complicate things a little if some are moving from >M13-style tips and curves and others from B40-style facings.
Those moving from closed Vandoren mpcs to closed Zinner-based or Rico Reserve mpcs were surprised to find that they could stay on a closed mpc and get a warmer, wider sound.
Those moving from open Vandoren mpcs were surprised to find an increase in playability and blow-through without sacrificing the warmth and mantle that initially drew them to an open facing.
>Had these students all been playing on Vandorens because of faculty >encouragement that also included a facing preference?
No. I find students choose a mpc based on 1) affordability and 2) the ability to buy it from a near-by store. That means Vandoren has usually been the only choice, until last year when the Rico Reserve mpc came out.
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