 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: peergynt
Date: 2013-08-09 01:35
Hello.
Does anyone have any idea how to improve the intonation of a rather flat long B?
I have recently bought a Bb Yamaha CSGIIIL, which is fantastic but this one note sticks out a little too much. I am able to get it more or less 'in tune' by opening the throat A key but any idea on what tech adjustments should be made would be helpful also.
Cheers.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-09 02:25
One possibility is that an A clarinet bell got switched to your Bb. Try another CSGIIIL bell. Get in touch with Yamaha to get an exchange.
The best tweakers can ream out the narrowest part of the bell to raise the B, but it's absolutely not for amateurs.
You might try a third-party bell such as a Backun, but they're expensive-and-a-half. Ask him if he can do anything with your stock bell.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-08-09 16:23
When I had the same problem with my Selmer Signature with both the stock bell and the Backun bell so I asked Morrie if he could do anything. He asked me to send his bell back and he drilled a hole in the bell and suggested lining it up with the lowest tone hole. It solved the problem. I actually drilled it to be slightly larger to make it even better but I didn't what to start the hole for fear I'd crack it. Ask your tech person to drill a hole about half way down the bell. You can try it with your tuner until it's the proper size. Getting a shorter bell will probably make some other notes sharper. The hole worked for me, it may work for you too and won't cost much if you don't want to chance it yourself.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-08-09 19:15
Many years ago, I took an A, a Bb, and a C clarinet to the late Glen Johnston for tuning of the Bs. He had me take all three to "Big Mac" a repair person to have the bells shortened by a ring width. In addition, he drilled a small hole in the C clarinet bell about 1 1/2 inches down from the ring. All were improved by this work.
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Author: peergynt
Date: 2013-08-14 01:38
Thank you all for your responses.
It seems that the best fix is to have my tech drill a hole in the bell aligned with B tonehole.
Does anybody have any idea how large the hole should be? If somebody was able to post a picture I would be most grateful.
Cheers
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-14 02:04
Determining the location and size of the hole is brain surgery and rocket science combined. You need someone who knows how to do it and has lots of experience.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2013-08-14 03:36
My Forte C clarinet came with a hole in the bell to correct its flat long B. However the B was too low, even with the hole in the bell. In light of the fact that, on the inside of the bell, the hole was close to the bell's socket, it was apparent that if I opened the hole concentrically, the hole would collide with the bell socket. The only option was to open the hole elliptically, which raised the long B.
If you put a hole in your bell or have a tech do so, make sure the hole is far enough down the bell that should the hole need enlarging, there is room to do so without causing the enlarged hole to impact the bell socket.
>Does anybody have any idea how large the hole should be?
The hole's size depends on the degree of flatness of the long B. You could start with a small hole and if the long B is still flat, increase the size of the hole until the B is in tune (as I did).
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2013-08-14 15:00
If you are going to try drilling a hole in the bell, use a drill bit guaranteed to make a clean hole. There are such drill bits available. They are more expensive, but worth every penny.
I believe I have drilled exactly one hole in the bell of a "working" clarinet. It was a C clarinet with some very intractable intonations problems. As far as I know, that C clarinet is still in use.
I drilled the hole on the underside of the bell, directly opposite the trademark. I believe the hole was 5 mm in diameter.
Walter Grabner
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-08-14 15:14
Same question came up very recently on the SaxOnTheWeb forum, so I'll just excerpt what I wrote there:
Drill a vent hole in the bell. I do this, for instance, with nearly every Boosey & Hawkes clarinet, they have the same issue. Fortunately the upper 12ths (low clarion B/C) are not raised in pitch nearly as much as the low chalumeau E/F when such a modification is made (Benade's book on musical instrument acoustics explains why this is so).
As I recall most of the bell vent holes I've drilled have been around 1/4" (6 mm) in diameter. I'd have to go home to measure a few, but I'd guess that generally I located them on the underside of the bell (opposite the logos, to make the holes a bit less visible) and roughly 1" (25 mm) away (towards the open end of the bell) from where the tenon socket ends.
I am neither a brain surgeon nor a rocket SCIENTIST, but I'm sort of a rocket ENGINEER, if that helps to ease Mr. Shaw's concern......
As Walter points out, it's very easy to chip the hole unless one uses the right bits and works slowly and carefully. The real trick is to start with a small bit and progress upward in bit size by the right increment each time (not too much bigger, but just enough!).
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-08-14 15:47
David,
Do you mean 25mm from the step at the bottom of the tenon, or 25mm from the upper end of the bell? I'm going to try it on a spare B&H bell, and I want to make sure I get it right.
Thanks.
Tony F.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-08-14 21:56
Once the hole is drilled it's ealy for you to drill it a bit larger little by little for just use a tuner at your tech until you're satisified. Since I have a large collection of bits I just kept using the next size once it was drilled until I was happy. It worked for me.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-08-15 04:00
Many thanks, Ed and David. I have a couple of Imperials, an Emperor and an Edgware that might benefit from this. I have a spare bell somewhere, I'll report back on results when I find it.
Tony F.
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