 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2013-07-30 00:40
I'm taking lessons from a college grad student who is getting her masters in clarinet performance. She mentioned today that when I hit middle C and progress upwards with my notes, I get what she referred to as a "sub-tone." She was not able to figure out what's causing it, so I told her I'd post the question on bboards. I'm bound to receive some helpful information! As the tones progress towards high C and above, the sub-tones become more and more pronounced. So...can any of you experts take a stab at this and help me out? MANY THANKS!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-07-30 01:10
Your grad student/teacher described it as a "sub-tone." We may be able to guess at what she means, but "sub-tone" could easily mean different things to different people. How would *you* describe what's happening without trying to reduce it to a single term?
Also, by "middle C" do you mean third space ("long" C)?
Karl
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Author: Roxann
Date: 2013-07-30 02:54
Third space C is what I was referring to. How I would describe it is, I can hear the note that I'm supposed to hear, plus I hear a second, lower sound at the same time. I'm producing two different sounds at exactly the same time.
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Author: willow129q
Date: 2013-07-30 03:55
I wonder if a harder reed would work?
Also be sure your chin is flat, and maybe picture the pitch you want to hear before you play it, I find if I do that when I'm making a big leap, I can instinctively feel how to shape my embouchure so the note comes out clear.
An interesting puzzle! Maybe I will play around with seeing if I can make that happen tomorrow...
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Author: qualitycontrol
Date: 2013-07-30 04:43
Seems to me someone doing their masters in clarinet performance should be able to explain this phenomenon pretty easily (so should every player on the board who thinks back to developing their staccato in the clarion.)
When depressing the register key of the clarinet, you're encouraging it to overblow an overtone of a fundamental frequency (which is the note you hear without the register key.) The way the clarinet is designed, the first jump it takes is up a twelfth up (an octave and a fifth.) So your fingering for E turns into a B and so on and so forth.
However the register key just encourages this jump and doesn't force it. You have to voice the notes differently in higher registers with your larynx. Until you have a very strong embouchure and can correctly voice the notes, you'll always hear this subtone which is the fundamental frequency of the overtone you're trying to produce. It was especially tricky for me to overcome from clarion G to C when playing staccato.
I'm also just a beginner so maybe someone else can chime in with other useful information or corrections.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2013-07-30 06:11
Sounds like your voicing may be off. Your tongue position may be a bit low, and that could be causing the undertone (I'm guessing that the note you are hearing is the note that would be playing if you didn't have the register key added, or maybe a slightly sharp version of that note).
If you start with the lowest C (T xxx|ooo) and play this note, with a high tongue position until you hear a slight buzz in your hear, you should be able to play the C, press the register key, get the G, and then press the throat G# key and get a slightly sharp E, without changing you embouchure at all. This could be an exercise that your teacher and help you with (it will ensure that you don't help the notes come out. All you would do is finger low C, and she would press the register key, and while that is pressed, press the G# key after you have established the G.
Another exercise you can do is to start at C, 2 ledger lines above the staff. Play the C, and then take your thumb off the register key, and keep the C sounding, and then replace the thumb on the key. You'll hear a dip in pitch, but if you can hold the note in the partial, NOT BY BITING, you should soon get rid of the undertone. This should be done after the first one is settled.
(Sorry if I'm rambling, it's 2:10am here!)
Hope that this helps, and if you have questions, feel free to ask!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-07-30 12:51
Another possibility: a pad leak, on one of the keys closest to the bell. It's an unusual result from a pad leak, but I've had it happen on clarinets I resetored, when I didn't have the pad seated quite right, and I've also encountered subtones in the lower clarion on clarinets I bought that appeared to be in playable condition but turned out to need a bit of tweaking.
Usually a pad leak getting started down there will cause difficulty in blowing the lower notes of the clarion (mid-staff B and C), while the low notes on the same keys will sound easily. I've noticed that the apparent subtone seems to result from a *larger* pad leak: the clarinet is really playing the lower note, while the higher one, the one you want, is a *squeak* from that note, even though it comes through as louder than the fundamental tone.
You can test for a leak by placing a thin slip of paper, such as cigarette paper or camera lens-cleaning tissue, under the closed pad. With the key still closed, gently slide the paper out. If it's looser on one or two pads than on the others, there's your leak.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-07-30 13:16
Some clarinets are more prone to 'ghost notes' in the upper part of the upper register, most likely something to do with the diameter of the speaker tube - if it's too wide, it can cause the lower register note to be heard faintly.
My teacher pointed this out to me on my old Selmer Bb which had a pretty wide diameter speaker tube (it was the two-piece one with large domed outer cup and central push-fit speaker tube). I filled the speaker tube in with soft solder and redrilled it to a narrower diameter than it was which helped.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-07-30 19:15
Roxann -
Play a "well-nourished" but not fortissimo F3 ![[F3]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/f3.gif) and gradually pinch the register key with the edge of your thumb. You should jump cleanly up to C5 ![[C5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c5.gif) .
If you don't jump up, or jump up but continue to hear F3, the register vent is probably partly blocked. Take the register key off and run a pipe cleaner dampened with water or rubbing alcohol through it to remove the buildup. When you're done, blow hard into the register vent and check with a flashlight down the vent and in the bore to make sure there's nothing hanging off the end of the tube inside the bore. If you're reluctant to try this, your teacher should be able to do it.
Did your teacher have you put your mouthpiece on her clarinet and have you try it? That's a very simple test that any experienced teacher should know to do.
Although your teacher is an advanced player, I worry that she hasn't diagnosed a relatively simple beginner's problem. You might be better off with someone who specializes in beginners.
Ken Shaw
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