 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-05-25 13:55
Dear Folks,
I have been playing the CL4 for about two weeks and find it an unusual treat to play. Much has been made of the pitch being 'high,' and I have said earlier that this is one of it's POSITIVE characteristics. Well after a week of playing locked in a lonely room and in mixed company, I can say that my twelfths have never sounded better !!!! Yes, you need "pull out" or God forbid, get a 2mm longer barrel but this is a small price to pay for sanity.
Playing the mouthpiece "Immer Kleiner" style (just the mouthpiece), I find that it is a full half step higher than my current weapon of choice the Gennusa GE**. The Vandoren plays a C# 6 at about plus 50 cents on the ol' Korg while the Gennusa is between a C natural 6 plus 50 and a C# 6 minus 50 cents [must note that the Masters will lip down to an A 5 before bottoming out while the Gennusa could almost go a minor third lower].
You CANNOT disregard the fact that the mouthpiece is actually generating a PITCH as apposed to the lengthening (or shortening) of the tube as with your barrel. For me (an perhaps YOU TOO) this has made playing really fun again .........it's almost brought me to tears.
There is a slight down side with the the Masters in that they tend to top out in volume just shy of where I would be most happy (I hasten to add that a few colleagues of mine have the same issue with their CL5s). But this in the end may be a livable gripe.
I also hasten to note for anyone interested (though this may be obvious), that the Floating Rail Ligature of Peter Spriggs works just fine on it.
Over all a real winner from Vandoren, a fairly inexpensive and (very important) a VERY replaceable mouthpiece.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-05-25 14:03
The CL5 for me was a great winner for tone, but I had to pull out my middle joint and barrel to the maximum before it's in tune, 442Hz! I probably will invest in a longer barrel, and of course try out the CL4 for a comparison. My CL5 works well on the GF ligature and 3 GC thick blank reeds. Is it true that the CL4 will require stronger reeds?
Also I feel that I need to push more for a louder sound on the CL5, so I cannot really project that much(?). This is my opinion btw.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-05-25 14:08
Oh, thanks for asking about reeds. I use 56 Rue Lepic in strength 4 and that's about the max for this mouthpiece (probably too much for some). I believe (though I have not tried the CL5 myself) the CL4 feels more open than the CL5. To me it is VERY reed friendly along the lines of the B40. Of course the B40 was just slightly too open for nr 4 reeds (the only strength I will use).
................Paul Aviles
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-05-25 14:23
I got the B40 lyre and for some reasons I cannot get the higher registers sharper. They're quite flat about 20 cents. Also, I have a pack of rue lepic 4s. Are the newer batches less seasoned? They have a slightly greenish colour, compared to the RICO reeds... Will try the CL4 soon when I get to the music store for replacement of cork!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-05-25 14:29
Oh, can't speak to the B40 Lyre (that one would be far too open for me). If you're using the 13 Series B40.... THAT is the problem of which I speak concerning flat mouthpieces. Also, the B40 is a very short lay mouthpiece, so the adjustments one can do for pitch are much more limited than with the Masters CL4 (or any other long lay mouthpiece).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-05-25 14:49
I always thought the B40 was a long lay mouthpiece, probably I'm wrong though haha. Now for barrels, maybe I'll decide in a Backun FatBoy, or the MoBa. First things first, try the CL4 and compare! Maybe I've said that three times..
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-05-25 19:14
Paul,
You've mentioned before that you needed short barrels for your CSG's because of the flatness. Doesn't this now open up the use of your longer barrels?
I'm still crazy about my CSGII's with my M30 13 Mouthpiece, M/O gold ligature and V12 3.5# reeds.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-05-25 19:58
I really liked the CL4 that I tried for about a week. Really projects, nice ring and purity to the sound. But with that I found that the sound was a tad thinner than my M30. I get a much fuller, much warmer sound that's very round with my M30. If I didn't have this wonderful M30 I'd probably definitely have a CL4 or an M13Lyre. They are great mouthpieces. My M30 also plays pretty sharp, but it doesn't bother me too much. Just pull out a little everywhere.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-05-25 21:09
I've always had problems with the 30 series mouthpieces, including the M13Lyre. I've always felt that the twelfths at least for my setup were always jacked up when /i try one. This is more than just one mouthpiece, this is when I tried a bunch out. Mine works fine and I wouldn't want to risk giving up this awesome M30 for a 13 series that 1. may not tune well for me and 2. not be as good as my current M30.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-05-25 23:42
Dear JamesOrlandoGarcia,
Wow, you keep up with me better than I do! Yes, indeed the Yamaha is doing much better now with the barrels size that Yamaha includes with the horn (56.5 or 57ish.....now I don't remember the exact size). I do also have a lot of playing time recently on R13s both wood and Greenline materials. And yes, I will probably want to get a new custom barrel of the appropriate length for the CL4.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2012-05-26 00:55
I have been curious about the CL4/CL5 but haven't been able to try them yet. However, having played the B40 Lyre on my CSGs for some time, I tried a B40-13 recently when I had to perform a solo work with some very difficult multi-phonics and felt that a more open facing was helpful. The B40 performed perfectly.
I've been very pleased with the B40. It is (supposedly) a tad more open than the B40Lyres with a slightly shorter facing (still M-L). It has a lot of "hold" and really doesn't feel "open". I play VD Traditional (which seem to work best) and V12 #3's. With these reeds, the B40 plays just a bit higher than the B40Lyres. Overall intonation with the CSG is even better that with the B40Lyres.
Based on my experience, I suspect I would prefer the CL5, but you never know. Actually at this point, I'll probably stick with the B40.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: gwie
Date: 2012-05-27 05:52
Both the CL4 and CL5 worked for me (as in I could play on them without any issues), but I didn't like my sound on the CL5 as much. It's a result of my being much more accustomed to my regular setup, a Grabner K11* and Vandoren V12-4.5 reeds.
The CL4 on the other hand is a real treat to play, and like Paul I have to express my delight in being able to use my regular-length barrel for my Yamaha CSG because of where the mouthpiece tends to sit pitch-wise. In recording myself in a hall, I generally find that the CL4 sounds compact and clear for me, but my K11* has more dynamic range, projection, and a very notice-able fullness in the sound that the CL4 lacks.
Still, it's a good mouthpiece for the price, half the price of my preferred mouthpiece, and something I'll definitely have some of my students look into.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2013-05-09 19:12
I just bought myself a CL5. Now, I (may) have the distinction of being the most dyed-in-the-wool vintage equipment junkie that ever drew breath. It has to be old. I look upon new *stock* mouthpieces with great disdain. But I have to say this sucka plays beautifully. At first I thought, "Oh, it just loves this reed." So I switched up several and it did well. Naturally, this disturbed me so I decided to pull out the gems in my collection ... the m'pingo Buffet refaced by Vytas Krass, the oval CBC/Bettoney, the Penzel Mueller that is certainly 1930s Chedeville rubber.
It compared well. Frankly, I have to admit there was a certain tightness and rrrrroundness and spontaneity and warmth that *surpassed* the antiques.
Vandoren has surely created something worth having with these. It has a sort of 'S' curve (or lapped) baffle and narrow wind-way. Nothing special in terms of design that I can observe.
Apparently, they do make 'em like they used to. I have few mouthpieces that respond this nicely and with such a pleasing tone.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2013-05-09 19:56
I'm currently playing the Vandoren CL5 on my Backun MoBa and love it. Hand picked from Vandoren in Paris. The tone rings beautifully and inhances the playability of the instrument. I use V 56 3.5+ reeds and its great.
For those of you complaining about the pitch you should get the specially made tuning rings for the Masters mouthpieces. These will help you play at 440. For me the thicker ring with a 66 Moba barrel playes perfectly in tune at 440.
Go and try it!
Peter Cigleris
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Author: curlyev
Date: 2013-05-09 20:12
Now I really want to try this mouthpiece! I'm such a mouthpiece junkie! lol. In my opinion, it's much easier to correct sharpness than flatness.
My current mouthpiece tends to play high, and it's great (refaced by Kurtzweil)!
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