 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2013-05-08 17:23
I've come upon a Charles Chedeville mouthpiece similar to the one shown here: http://test.woodwind.org/oboe/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=375936&t=375936 (On mine, but obliterated in the photo, is a little box with C/C in it.)
The logo and scroll work are identical to that in the photo. Just above the scrollwork on one side of the table is stamped France and on the other side: MC (??Medium Closed??).
Just below the logo is stamped:
K9
Woodwind
I'd appreciate any background or history on it. I've read through the archives; it appears the history of these mouthpieces is quite varied and convoluted.
Thanks
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-05-08 18:27
MC is medium close tip opening.
It is indeed odd to have both logos. Is the woodwind logo a stamped logo?
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Author: Bill
Date: 2013-05-08 18:28
That's a bit like having a Fobes mouthpiece but with "J. Pyne" stamped just below the Fobes trademark. Could Woodwind and Chedeville really have made cooperative mouthpieces? Anything's possible.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2013-05-08 23:36
Attachment: mouthpiece.jpg (358k)
The K9 and WOODWIND below it are stamped into the mouthpiece: K9 much larger than WOODWIND. There is no Woodwind logo, as such.
Where, who, when was Woodwind?
I've put some chalk into the stamping; you can just make out WOODWIND.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-05-08 23:54
It's definitely a Ch. Chedeville first. I don't know when or how, but it would appear that someone from the woodwind company (perhaps) refaced it to that particular facing.
All I can say from looking at the pic is that it's a chedeville first...
I think Tom Ridenour would be a good person to contact, for his previous affiliation with the woodwind mouthpieces. (If memory serves).
There's a chance someone on this board has a list of people that worked on the various vintages of woodwind mouthpieces...
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Author: Bill
Date: 2013-05-09 21:41
Woodwind was a major stock mouthpiece company in the mid-20th century. They were rather like the American Vandoren. They had a number of proprietary facings one of which was 'K9'.
I have seen 'K9' stamped on old Otto Link mouthpieces, thus attesting to the popularity of The Woodwind Company's facings. So, perhaps your Chedeville (which it undoubtedly is) is their attempt at offering Woodwind's 'K9' facing ... on a Chedeville.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
Post Edited (2013-05-09 21:45)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-05-09 22:52
I would still say that it's not something that was offered directly from woodwind comapany. I've never heard of Chedeville having offered a mouthpiece with another company's name along with their own (although many, many chedeville blanks were distributed to other companies who put their own logo on).
This seems to have fallen through the cracks. Definitely an interesting curiosity and mystery
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-05-09 23:10
I have played some Cheds that were real dogs. They must have been K9s
or maybe canines!?
;-)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-05-10 14:05
Attachment: photo-11.JPG (1391k)
Attachment: photo-12.JPG (1355k)
The original facings on CH. Chedevilles like this one are typically awful. Kind of like a Porsche with rims, no tires. No way to tell if it's a particularly good blank until someone puts a real facing on it.
The no. 9's are also usually very open at the tip. I have 3 of them and they all had to be closed 10-15 points to play well. They are fantastic mouthpieces though. Not as good as golden era quality rubber, but definitely better than zinner\vandoren\rico etc.
Some people will say that post-war chedevilles "aren't real chedevilles". The fact of the matter is that Kaspar used these blanks for many many mouthpieces, both Kaspars for that matter. Other companies had these blanks and did a wide range of things to them, sometimes successfully and sometimes not. They are still very high quality mouthpieces when worked on by someone who knows what they're doing.
Here's one of my No. 9's.
P.S. If you look closely there's a scroll chedeville I've been working on on the table to the left in the first pic.
Post Edited (2013-05-10 14:11)
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2013-05-10 23:01
Thanks for your note but it leaves me confused. The mouthpiece apparently originally had a medium closed tip; (it's stamped MC just above the scroll work). Did Woodwind then open it and stamp it K9?
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-05-10 23:41
Yes- that's most likely how it happened. I also would say there was probably more adjustment to the facing curve than just the tip opening.
If you want it to play as well as it can, getting someone competent to reface it would be best. If you keep it as a collector\curiosity piece, just leave it alone.
A good blank that could be a great mouthpiece if it isn't with the K9.
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-05-11 21:17
Ramon Wodkowski facebook post with a similar mouthpiece (bass selmer)
"Lastly, a curiosity piece - a vintage Selmer bass mpc, also stamped Woodwind Co G6. I have seen a number of these double stamped mpcs - Selmer, Chedeville, Lelandais, Goldbeck, etc - all with a small Woodwind Co stamp of some sort. Woodwind was one of the first mainstream commercial mouthpiece making firms, and used very elaborate (some patented) facing machines. Those machines had certain facing templates, such as the K9, G8, G7, etc. Woodwind also had a staff of skilled craftsmen working for them - one such person was George Jenney, a well known maker who made a name for himself at Woodwind and other firms in the mid 20th century. This mpc clearly started out life as an older Selmer made bass, but at some point Woodwind applied their G6 facing, most likely via their machines. Those early machines were eventually replaced by more sophisticated and accurate machinery as technology improved, but they were wonderful achievements of engineering."
I think it's certain that your chedeville falls under this category as I said before. Original chedeville thrown on one of the woodwind machines or finished by staff there, then stamped.
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Author: Mark Fleming
Date: 2014-10-10 21:21
Old thread, but I've come across similar items in the sax mouthpiece world. Both Otto Link and WoodWind Co. NY advertised refacing services for mouthpieces. Both of these companies used a machine that was apparently patented by Mr. Berciuox, a principle at WWCo. Meyer Bothers NY also did refacing. I have a WWCo. tenor piece that started out as a B5# (stamped on the table) but is now stamped over as a Meyer 6. It came in a Meyer Bros. box with a Meyer Bros. ligature, so I think it's likely that it spent some time at Meyer Bros.
I also have a Riffault mouthpiece with a K9 facing. WWCo. generally used Riffault blanks after WWII, so having WWCo put their K9 facing on an actual Riffault badged piece was not a problem.
Mark
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