 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Danny1988
Date: 2011-05-24 00:41
I've been trying to figure out more information about these clarinets and I have been reading a lot of conflicting information and I was wondering if anyone can help me. I own one with a serial number K16xxx and I was wondering what model it is considered and if it is worth getting it fixed up? (new pads, cork, and a key is bent)
Thanks for any information.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-05-24 03:11
The information I was educated with by this board is that the E&S K-series is equivalent to today's E-13 line. My E&S plays VERY well (IMO better than some R13's I've tried) and is well worth fixing up.
My suggestion and thoughts - it'd be worth fixing it up. Then after fixing it up, go on a barrel hunt. I've found (and read corroborating evidence on this board) that a great barrel can transform a good instrument into a great one. Try out buffet-specific barrels (Moenigg, Chadash, Muncy) and others.
For probably around a total of 400 - 500 dollars, you could very well end up with an instrument rivaling those $2000 USED buffet R13s.
Alexi
PS - I own a E&S K-series, and in it's hayday, before the overhaul it needs now, it played very well and better than some poorer R13s (better than some of the R13s I have access to right now). And that was with the STOCK barrel.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-05-24 04:53
Alexi is correct. An E&S with a K16xxx serial number is the forerunner of the current E13. Yours was made in 1965 or 1966, depending on the last three digits. While there are good and bad instruments of every vintage, your clarinet was made during what many consider to be the heart of Buffet's "Golden Age." I also have a K16xxx and, if yours is like mine, it is made of good wood. That's the good news. The bad news is that 55 years is plenty of time for an instrument to have suffered abuse. If you have no structural damage other than the bent key, I would say it's likely to be worth fixing up.
On eBay, in "needs work" condition, these clarinets typically bring $200 - $250. In very good condition (plays well and looks clean), I have seen clarinets similar to yours sell for $350 - $450 and I have seen one from a seller whose clarinets look dead mint sell for $650. This is one case, then, where you could probably recover at least some repair costs if you decide to sell the instrument after having it fixed up.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: annev
Date: 2011-05-25 02:34
I own a K-series Evette and Schaeffer from the early 1970s which is a lovely instrument, and, from the intonation, certainly has a polycylindrical bore. Does any one know at what point the earlier K-series E & S clarinets would have started with the polycylindrical bore?
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Author: Danny1988
Date: 2011-05-25 08:06
Thanks for the info! As far as I can tell there is no structural damage to the instrument. I am going to look around for a place to fix it up then, I was wanting it for use while I save up the funds for a professional level clarinet.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-05-25 20:23
I don't know when Buffet began using the polycylindrical bore in the E&S model. Buffet's factory records may or may not be sufficiently detailed to give an answer so you could try contacting them. Some Buffet employees who were with the company when the change occurred may still be alive but finding them could be a challenge.
It occurred to me that the Buffet serial number list might provide an answer if it showed a point where the factory designation for the E&S changed but I now think that approach is a dead-end. The earliest K-series E&S reported on the Buffet site is serial number 4000, dated November 2, 1952. (That there are K-series E&S clarinets with serial numbers below 4000 has been documented on this Board before. Indeed Vytas Krass had one with a 3-digit number and a design that would place it in the 1930s. On eBay, instruments in the K3000 range have turned up occasionally. Buffet's serial number look-up is not comprehensive, however. To me, it appears to be based on factory records -- some of which may have been lost during WWII or during a financial crisis the company reportedly faced in the early 1950s. Or maybe the company may have decided not to incorporate all the data they have.)
The model designation given for K4000 is:
clarinettes Evette n�1 sib 440
This designation continues through 4806, dated January 10, 1953. (Note that this, and all my following discussion of serial number ranges are based on sampling. I don't have time to trace every individual number. Also note that the "Evette" designation in the look-up refers to the E&S, not the student Evette model. Buffet made the student Evette in a separate factory and Evette serial numbers are not included in the company's serial number look-up.)
From 4807 - 4999, there are no clarinets with an "Evette" designation. However, beginning with 4807 and ending with 4999, there is a batch of instruments simply designated as "Canada." Were these E&S models made for Canadian distribution? Whatever they were, their appearance in the sequence strikes me as more than mere coincidence. In any case, at 5000, "Canada" disappears and "Evette" reappears with a slightly different designation"
Clarinettes n�1 440 Evette
No. 5000 was made on April 30, 1953. Buffet continued to use the same designation for this model through February 14, 1972 (Serial No. 29999.)
At this point, the E&S disappears from the serial number list for a gap that extends to 40000 (February 3, 1977) when the model (probably) reappears as
Clarinettes E13 Nickel�es
Thus, the two clear changes in model designation in the serial number list occur in 1953 and 1977 (or, if you prefer 1972). The first is too early to indicate a change to the polycylindrical bore, because it precedes the official introduction of that feature in the R13 (1955). (I hope we have that one cleared up.) The second date, 1977 (or even 1972), is too late.
The serial number look-up makes no reference to E&S manufacture during the 5-year period between February 14, 1972 and February 3, 1977 (30000 - 39999). However, I have an E&S with a 36xxx serial number. Perhaps some factory records are missing or were overlooked when Buffet created its SN database.
Here's my theory. I think Buffet began using the basic R13 design (polycylindrical bore, undercut tone holes) in its E&S model sometime during the first half of 1961. I base this estimate on one piece of very thin evidence so take it with a grain of salt. All the evidence I've seen indicates that sometime between K4000 and K10000 (possibly earlier but no later than K5000), Buffet began adding the designation "Master Model" to all its E&S clarinets. This practice continued until sometime between K10000 and K11000 when Buffet changed its policy and only designated an occasional E&S as a Master Model because it performed particularly well on final inspection. Why did Buffet add and then drop the Master Model designation? It's my theory that Buffet wanted to let customers know that, even though R13s had the new polycylindrical bore, E13s still had the older cylindrical Master Bore (Buffet's terminology). In other words, at this point, "Master Model" meant "Master Bore Model." Then, when Buffet began making E&S clarinets with a polycylindrical bore, the company dropped the "automatic" Master Model" designation. That would suggest a delay of around 5 years from the time Buffet introduced the polyclyindrical bore in the R13 to the time the company incorporated that bore in the E&S.
Whether that theory is correct or not, I believe that the polycylindrical bore was adopted for the E&S no later than the first half of 1961 because I have an E&S, numbered 106xx (not a Master Model) that appears to have a polycylindrical bore. I don't have bore-measuring tools but the upper joint exit bore is significantly larger than the entry bore and AFAIK, Buffet never used a cone. The instrument also has undercut tone holes. Of course, the upper joint could have been re-bored sometime over the years and the undercutting might not be original but that seems unlikely to me.
There is some contrary evidence that I can't ignore. In a much earlier thread on these instruments, Pat Parkin claimed to have a K8xxx master model that had a polycylindrical bore and undercut toneholes. If his assessment of the instrument is correct, that would indicate that Buffet introduced the R13 features to the E&S as early as 1956 (and my theory is hogwash). Supporting the likely accuracy of his assessment is evidence that he had considerable experience with a variety of clarinets. On the other hand, he doesn't indicate in any detail how he determined the bore was polycylindrical and, if differences are small, measuring them can be tricky business.
So, annev, I'm pretty sure you have a polycylindrical bore though I doubt one can tell by intonation alone.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2011-05-25 22:26)
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Author: annev
Date: 2011-05-26 02:39
Hello Jack,
Thank you - that's very interesting and answers a number of questions I've had about the K-series Evette and Schaeffer clarinets. Your theory about the Master Model clarinets is especially interesting and would make good sense, although I understand it is difficult to prove. It's too bad that so many manufacturing records have been lost!
My E & S is a K24XXX, and is a lovely instrument. Prior to this I owned an older, straight bore, SML clarinet. It too had a lovely tone, but had some issues with the spread of the 12ths. When the mid-clarion notes were in tune (E to A), the corresponding chalumeau notes (A to D) would be sharp. (I'm one of those people who have the mixed blessing of hearing small differences in pitch, so whenever I played with piano accompaniment the sharpness of the lower chalumeau would make my toes curl). I thought the issue with the 12ths was due to the straight bore, but I may be wrong. The E & S has a lovely tone and good response, and although the intonation isn't perfect, it is very very good and easy to bring in tune through the registers. And yes, the exit bore of the upper joint is larger then the entrance, which I didn't notice before.
Some of these old K-series Evette and Schaeffers periodically appear on eBay, as mentioned earlier in this thread, and I was curious as to when the polycylindrical bore design might have been present. Danny, you may find when you fix yours up that it provides as good a playing experience as some of the newer professional mainline brands of clarinets. In the right hands they can really "sing".
Post Edited (2011-05-28 02:36)
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Author: Batyr
Date: 2013-04-10 19:28
Is any body can help me Please? I have this Buffet Crampon F-63741 it is heavy and look like the wood one. Is any body know if this is R-13 professional or something else?
I thank you very much who ever will enlighten me in this .
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-04-11 01:21
Looks as though it was made in 1960 for the European market (Tunes at A=442). does it have a cutout in the body under the r/h pinkie keys?
Tony F.
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Author: cxl
Date: 2014-05-01 18:24
I came across a Evette and Schaeffer with `K41670`. It is clean and good condition.
I want to konw which year the clarinet was made?
les.cxl@gmail.com
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