 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ravi2000
Date: 2013-04-02 16:41
I've been asked what skill level I am on numerous occasions. I would like to know if there is some kind of way to determine what skill level I am. Maybe a set of scales that if you can play would classify you as beginner, intermediate, etc.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2013-04-02 18:06
I wouldn't be so fast to categorize someone's skill level according the ability to play a certain scale or note or anything quantitative. I would much prefer the ability to play less but with more tonal quality, feeling and musicality. Some people play a lot of notes, but none you really want to hear.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-04-02 19:29
Beyond the very beginning entry level, words like elementary, intermediate, advanced, etc. are largely meaningless. There are grading systems around used by education organizations (often at a national level in some places) that are used to rank students involved in their programs along a progress continuum. But those rankings are meaningless to anyone not familiar with them (apparently there is one in use in Great Britain, since questions about it have come up here).
Better just to describe what kind of music you are able to work with meaningfully. If someone actually asks about your level, let the questioner make his own judgement based on what you can play.
Karl
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Author: john4256
Date: 2013-04-02 19:50
Here in the UK we have a grading system primarily covered by the Associated Board of the Royal School of Music and Trinity Guildhall. Students take practical exams from Grade 1 (beginners) to Grade 8 (pre diploma). If anyone asks what is my skill level I would reply Grade 5 (or whatever) and so on. It is, therfore, quite easy to roughly gauge someone's skills in a particular instrument.
All this, of course, presupposes that the questioner has some idea of what each grade means.All people associated with music will know what each level means but possibly others may not.
Post Edited (2013-04-02 19:54)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-04-02 20:54
john4256 wrote:
> All people associated with music
> will know what each level means but possibly others may not.
>
All people in the UK. Which, of course, was my point. Too, that rating system won't cover people (particularly adult recreational learners) who are not studying within the system. I guess those people could look up the grading descriptors and find out where they'd be, but they aren't juried and probably most recreational learners wouldn't go to the trouble.
Still, it's a useful system for those involved in it.
Karl
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-04-02 23:22
I'm going to go out on a limb here. Here's a study guide David Hite had on his website when he was alive. I think it might help provide a common ground for discussion:
http://www.oocities.org/vienna/choir/2559/clarinetp.html
Now these are my personal evaluations (and I base them more on the solos listed at each level than anything else) and others may choose to disagree but if someone asked me to convert Hite's Levels to a Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced scale, I would probably classify someone in his level 1 as a beginner, someone in levels 2 and 3 as "intermediate," someone in level 4 as "upper intermediate," and anyone in levels 5 and above as advanced.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-04-03 00:04
Leveled rating systems within an organized teaching structure makes sense within that structure - it gives teachers a way to evaluate their students' progress in an objective way, which in turn can be used by the teacher for self-evaluation (if my students aren't progressing, what am I not doing to help them?). Graded repertoire lists that usually are part of those systems can help teachers and students find appropriate and useful material more easily.
I am probably getting far from Ravi's question and maybe am guilty of over-thinking this question, for which I think he was looking for a simpler, less equivocal answer. If so, I apologize for gumming up the thread. But I guess I'm a little stumped about who would be asking this question ("what is your skill level?") so directly, and why. If it really matters, as in whether or not to accept a player into an ensemble, an actual audition would be a more informative tool (however more uncomfortable an experience it is for the auditioning player). If it isn't a matter of screening potential ensemble members for their playing level, then showing the player a sampling of the group's repertoire would let him or her gracefully self-select. Otherwise, apart from the questioner's own wish to place *himself* on some kind of competitive scale relative to the person being asked, why would the answer have relevance to anything?
I think I'm really thinking: I've never (that I can recall) been asked that question directly, even as a young student and wonder why anyone is asking Ravi, who says he's been asked "on numerous occasions."
Karl
Post Edited (2013-04-03 00:05)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2013-04-03 00:47
Someone once asked "Is he a beginner?" in reference to my squawky multiphonic improv. That's about the only time I've encountered a question about skill level.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2013-04-03 04:57
I've seen it used on application forms for Festival-Type programs where all levels are accepted and a self-report is used to facilitate placement where an audition might be impractical. Here is an example (and a plug for Scott Andrews, principal clarinet of the Saint Louis Symphony). I have no connection to this festival.
http://www.mochambermusic.org/pro-am-application.html
Note the last item in the application.
The ACMP (Chamber Music Network) also uses a self-rating for their directory. They provide a self-rating guide here:
http://www.acmp.net/ratings
that the OP might find useful.
Of course, the value of such ratings is only as high as the self-rater is honest. But in a context like this, over-estimating one's skill can lead to some serious humiliation.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2013-04-03 14:11)
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2013-04-03 12:13
Having come up through the UK Associated Board system (incidentally they do offer their exams all over the world if you think you might like to work towards something) I would say that, whilst the grades do provide some kind of point of reference, there is a world of difference between those who proudly claim "Oh I've got grade 8" but it turns out that this was twenty years ago, since when the instrument has been gathering dust and even then they only got 102 out of 150 (100 is the pass mark) and those who recently got perhaps 135 at grade 6 and have been working hard with a good teacher and practising regularly.
To put it another way, at the well-known, fairly high standard summer school which I have been attending recently, the "intermediate" band is extremely broad!
Vanessa.
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Author: john4256
Date: 2013-04-03 17:04
I know what you mean Vanessa. I got Grade 8 Clarinet in 1961!!!!!!!! I wouldn't dare say I was Grade 8 standard now lol My fingers have slowed down, I've got stronger spectacles etc etc - might be pushing Grade 5 if I was lucky!! Oh well happy days
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-04-04 00:18
I don't think numbers mean much.
For me, a 1st chair high school player should know all the major and minor scales, straight and in thirds, through 4 (and preferably 5) sharps and flats, and be able to tongue 16ths at 126. The scales should be well enough "in the fingers" to permit sight-reading moderate level music -- say a Sousa march or the Holst Suites. Solo ability should be at least through the Weber Concertos and Concertino.
A college graduate (and even more so a conservatory graduate) will know all the major and minor scales and arpeggios (i.e., the complete Baermann III) and be able to play smoothly in all of them. Tongue 16ths at 136 and for bursts at 144. Play the standard orchestral solos, sonatas and concertos musically, with close harmonic attention, and have the Nielsen Concerto under your fingers. Be familiar with the common the advanced techniques (flutter-tonguing, pitch bending, quarter-tone fingerings, multi-phonics) and be interested in using them.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2013-04-04 08:18
John4256 - The difference is that you and I are aware of the difference!
Vanessa.
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-04-04 08:52
I agree Nessie that when first returning to clarinet the standard is significantly lower. I did my grade 8 in 1980 when I was 16. I got 138 then and when I started playing properly again last July I was no where near that.
However I think adult learners can be very determined and I now think more about the intrinsic quality of my playing rather than the competition of jumping through the grades or auditioning for music colleges. I now have an altissimo up to D7 which I never had way back then and I seem to have taken a real shine to Eb clarinet. I have worked really hard to do that and to improve generally and I think that within the four wall of my own home, I am much better than I was back then. What I seek now is to develop my confidence outside my own home and I was also thinking of attending a summer school this year. Which one are you attending?
Post Edited (2013-04-04 09:10)
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2013-04-04 12:02
Absolutely Paula - adult returners or beginnes are often the most passionate and dedicated I've found. What I meant in my comment was not just the fact that one can slip back in standard after a lay-off but that there are those who don't realize it. There are those who considerably overestimate their abilities and achivements and also those who considerably underestimate them.
From your posts on the board though you seem to be a very commited and wise player.
In terms of Summer School I'm going to Dartington - I've been twice before and thoroughly recommend it. If you would like to know more do email me off forum - actually I have a couple of suggestions for you if you're interested so look forward to discussing.
Vanessa.
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-04-04 19:38
Hi Nessie,
Will email you tomorrow regarding summer schools/suggestions. I could do with a good kick to get on the scene again as I am very apprehensive about being out in public again ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif) . As a Lecturer in a completely different discipline, I know that some students/learners will try to run before they can walk and others often with real ability hide in the shadows and just need a bit of encouragement to get going.
I believe you are a fellow wide borer? Hopefully I will catch up with you sometime soon! It would be good to compare notes ;-)
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2013-04-04 23:04
As an adult who plays in amateur groups for fun, how someone plays could best be described by how comfortable they would be playing the music played by different groups.
For example, are you (or would you be) comfortable playing the difficult music played by a very good community band, or would you (and the group) be better off if you played with a band that does less challenging music?
George
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-04-04 23:27
> For example, are you (or would you be) comfortable playing the difficult
> music played by a very good community band, or would you (and the group)
> be better off if you played with a band that does less challenging music?
I have found out that this vastly differs with the actual voice (1st, 2nd, 3rd clarinet) and arrangement you're playing. Some Über-class 1st clarinet parts can be easier than a low-end 2nd part (and vice versa, of course) depending how easy they're on the fingers or in the ear.
I think the quality of a certain band over some other band is maybe rather the finer things such as emphasis on timing, timbre and pitch, and not so much the challenge of the piece per se (which of course is a factor, too).
--
Ben
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Author: gkern
Date: 2013-04-05 02:11
As an adult who returned to playing clarinet after a hiatus of over 53 years, my skill level goal is continual improvement, classification is not a concern. More important is my newly found passion for the clarinet, which I now realize has filled a void in my life that I was previously unaware of.
Gary K
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Author: Taras12
Date: 2013-04-06 03:23
gkern wrote:
> As an adult who returned to playing clarinet after a hiatus of
> over 53 years, my skill level goal is continual improvement,
> classification is not a concern. More important is my newly
> found passion for the clarinet, which I now realize has filled
> a void in my life that I was previously unaware of.
>
Ditto...while it's been only 45 years for me, I felt the void, especially since the clarinet was my first instrument in grade school, and I gave it up after only 6 months. It took my 10 year old niece to give me the courage to pick it up again. Class, grade, etc. seem superfluous at my age; it's the discipline and peace that playing well and becoming one with the music that counts.
Tristan
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