 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2013-03-04 16:01
This is probably a "basic" I missed many years ago, but...
Can anyone give me some concepts about "how tight" or "how loose"? What are we trying to accomplish when affixing a reed? Just enough to hold it in place? Hold it in place firmly? Crank it down and back off half a turn?
Thanks.
Thanks for all the replies.
I was finally able to find some of the old threads on this. (For some reason, my first search didn't unearth them.)
SOM
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
Post Edited (2013-03-04 18:43)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-03-04 17:22
The best guide to how tight to make your ligature is to try different degrees of tightness and decide which gives you the best result. I suspect the type of ligature you use (cloth, metal, single/double screw, inverted/non-inverted, ribbed/smooth surface contact, amount of surface contact with the reed, etc.) may make a difference, but essentially, your result is all that matters.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-04 17:30
If you're using a standard metal ligature with two screws and worried about pinching the reed when you tighten it, then you can always turn the ligature through 90° to 180° in relation to where it normally goes so the smooth part of the ligature is across the heel of the reed.
Provided the ligature is made of brass or nickel silver which are fairly soft and malleable, it will soon conform to the shape of the mouthpiece and reed. There are some cheap nickel plated mild steel ligatures out there supplied with clarinets which are too hard and won't conform easily (and they'll rust where the plating gets damaged).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-03-04 18:23
To "add" to what was put forth on the previous post, I'd like to emphasise that there are two basic, diametrically opposed approaches.
The first is espoused best on Mike Lomax's website where he makes the case for keeping the reed as solidly affixed to the mouthpiece as possible so that the actual vibrating section of the reed (everything from the tip down to where it meets the mouthpiece) is the ONLY thing moving, giving you a true picture of the reed as the mechanism which initiates the vibrating column.
The second is one bestowed upon me be some players who sound wonderful and do this (they believe) in part by the allowing the entire reed to vibrate as much as possibe, therebye giving you maximum resonance.
And of course everything in between.
I was doing some very concentrated altissimo work this morning (you know, the kind that might lead to divorce) and I found at least for this particular work, it was a bit more 'tidy' with the reed as rigidly affixed as possible. Perhaps there is need for more experimenting along these lines.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-04 22:41
There are two theories. (1) "loose" as described by Paul and recommended by Rovner, and (2) "tight" as recommended by Kal Opperman and Luyben.
When I set my ligature loose, I don't like what happens. I think air leaks out from underneath the reed. Even with a Rovner (which I use a lot), I feel best when it's at least moderately snug.
For many, many years, I've followed the advice of (I think) Nilo Hovey, who said to tighten the ligature until you felt a distinct increase in resistance -- i.e., all the way tight. Then loosen the two screws 1/4 turn each.
Kal Opperman took very inexpensive ($5) Martin ligatures and used two needle-nosed pliers to bend the metal out at the spot where the screw mounts met the ring, and then down about 1/8" further out, so that the metal went around without touching the edges of the reed. He then tightened up the ligature nearly snug. He said that this ensures an airtight seal on the bottom and provides enough springiness for free vibration.
Before experimenting, you need to make the bottom of the reed absolutely flat. Particularly if you slap a new reed on without doing anything to the bottom, an imprint of the window and even the rail edges gets squeezed into the bottom. Unless you put the reed on exactly the same position the next day, you have a built-in leak. I start with reeds one number too hard and repeatedly soak and sand the bottoms until they're hard and stable.
Also, it's very important that the edges of the reed do not get outside the outer edge of the rails. If they do, when your lower lip wraps around the edges, it binds them against the mouthpiece, killing the vibration. Kal Opperman taught me to narrow reeds slightly, so they were a tiny bit narrower than the outer edges of the rails -- maybe 1/32". He would hold the reed on with his thumb and jog it from side to side in microscopic amounts with his opposite thumb and index finger to find the tiny "sweet spot" where the resonance leaped up. He would then put the ligature on without moving the reed and tighten it up quite snug to keep the reed from moving off the magic spot. I've been doing that from the day he showed me how.
Ken Shaw
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-03-05 00:09
I'm of the make it very tight camp. I tried loose as per the other thread, but I didn't notice any improvement in tone and a slight paranoia of "oh dear...what if the reed slips sideways while I'm trying to march and play" sat in.
For what it's worth, I have gravitated towards the Rovner Versa-X (looks much like a slightly tweaked and rebranded Eddie Daniels lig which I used before it). I typically use just the metal on the reed and crank the lig very tight. Sounds and responds great to me. Then I put the flaps over it to snug it against the mouthpiece without a reed and put the mouthpiece cap over it protecting the mouthpiece in the case. Works for me.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2013-03-05 05:27
Its my understanding that the floating rails lig can't be tightened very much, but people seem to really like them??? I'm interested in getting one, but would it be better to get something I can crank down?
AAAClarinet
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-03-05 09:17
The Spriggs Floating Rail Ligature does not "crank down" by design (a turning knob that is more of a tube really). This is partly out of self preservation since it is a rather sinuous contraption and partly because Peter Spriggs was getting at a light pressure system in the first place I believe.
If you insist on changing from "A" to "Bb" at the mouthpiece, you won't be very happy with this one, but it really has a lovely sound (if ligatures have a sound that is).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-05 09:28
I'm surprised no-one has designed a clarinet mouthpiece with a fixed ligature/clamp that Lawton and other sax mouthpiece makers have been using on sax mouthpieces for decades: http://csax.net/mouthpieces/alto/alto-lawton-2.jpg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2013-03-05 20:15
Ah, I like your storage idea of flipping the flaps over the metal! I had bemoaned the small scratch I saw from my Versa. Thanks for the tip!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-03-06 00:21
Quote:
I'm surprised no-one has designed a clarinet mouthpiece with a fixed ligature/clamp that Lawton and other sax mouthpiece makers have been using on sax mouthpieces for decades: http://csax.net/mouthpieces/alto/alto-lawton-2.jpg
Chris. Not integrated, but that ligature design is very VERY similar to the Francois Louis Ultimate Ligature. I had one of those and it's a very good ligature. But like Paul said above, if you intend on grasping the mouthpiece only, it's not very secure. It also costs a bit more $$$ than others.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2013-03-06 16:29
I started in fourth grade with the school district's traveling music teacher. We all had cheap, two screw ligatures (mostly rentals) which she told us to make "tight". I continued to do so as I grew but failed to account for my increasing strength. After physically destroying a couple of ligatures, I finally decided that I should take the time to figure out what worked best for me. Now, whatever ligature I may be using, I occasionally put on a not-so-tight shoelace just to be sure I am not developing any sideways forces on the mouthpiece. (I got to play through full metal braces and bloody lips.)
Your body is constantly changing with age and experience. Find what works best for you and use it until you find something that works better. Allow yourself some practice time to try different variations. I keep a variety of reeds and mouthpieces around and will occasionally put some different ones on my clarinet just to see if "they" have changed any. You may be surprised at how much "they" can change just sitting on the shelf. :^)
Post Edited (2013-03-06 16:31)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-03-06 19:28
Quote:
Your body is constantly changing with age and experience. Find what works best for you and use it until you find something that works better. Allow yourself some practice time to try different variations. I keep a variety of reeds and mouthpieces around and will occasionally put some different ones on my clarinet just to see if "they" have changed any. You may be surprised at how much "they" can change just sitting on the shelf. :^) Scary how true this is about people settling in different directions over the course of years.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2013-03-10 00:18
Make sure it's tight enough to prevent air or "water" to get between the reed and the mouthpiece. After that it's a matter of preference. Try it different ways and detrmine what works best for you not for someone else. It also depends on what type of ligature you use. Matal made tight will choke off the vibration but a softer material like most Rovners will not. Experiment, that they only way you will know for yourself.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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