 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2013-02-14 05:34
My teacher (Fred Rast ) constantly corrects my lower lip placement- I get the right amount of lip on the reed at first, but almost immediately the lip creeps back into my mouth and covers the reed tip, reducing the resonance. I'm frustrated since I know well what I should be doing, but can't seem to hold the postion very long. I have a fair amount of overbite, which I'm sure is contributing to the problem. Any suggestions as to how to stop this "lip creep" issue?
Jerry
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-02-14 11:18
I would think that holding that whole chin area really taught should keep the lower lip where you put it. And while you do that, don't forget to keep the upper lip and associated area taught as well.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2013-02-14 14:19
You might also consider how much upward pressure you are exerting by your RH thumb. Some of that is a good thing, but maybe you are doing a bit too much.
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: Brent
Date: 2013-02-14 16:33
I studied for a while with Carmine Campione. He is an advocate of using double lip embouchure to correct this type of problem. He feels that if you put your top lip under your upper incisors, the lower lip will naturally fall into the correct position.
I went to double lip while i was studying with him, and have never gone back, except for a few occasions where i needed to play standing up and i couldn't get the stability i needed without the upper teeth on the instrument.
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Author: Brent
Date: 2013-02-15 16:36
What i specifically said was that he advocates double lip *to correct this type of problem*. I did not at all mean to imply that he advocates it across the board--i think he's far too smart to do that.
He does use a single lip embouchure, but maintains that it is essentially identical to his double lip embouchure (with the exception of the upper lip, of course!).
Sorry if it was unclear to you what i meant--i generally try to be very clear about what i say.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-02-15 18:56
It was just that what you wrote needed elaboration to be understood by the general reader, I thought. Since I've been involved with the topic before, that clarification was easy to make:-)
Tony
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Author: clarinet2656
Date: 2013-02-16 12:20
You may be too advanced for this, but with our younger players we take soda straws, or coffee stirrers that are like mini straws and have the student set the embouchure with the corners anchored and the chin flat. Keep returning to the straw every time the lip collapses. You need to exercise the muscle underneath the lower lip.
Just a thought,
s
Steve Litwiller
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2013-02-17 18:04
Thanks for the repsonses- I think Paul's suggestion about insuring a drawn chin might work-I'll try to keep focussing on this.
Jerry
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-02-17 19:03
This exercise has helped me. I am massively guilty of folding my lower lip too far over. Try doing this without minimal lip contact. I can't ;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnRZ9CmOrHM
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2013-02-17 20:36
I wrote something about 'embouchures in general' on the Klarinet list several years ago that deals with some of the issues made apparent in the clip from David Etheridge -- but that seems to be down at the moment, so I can't link to the post. Edit: actually, I can now, thanks to Mark Charette; it's:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/lookup.php/Klarinet/2002/04/000770.txt
The fallacy embodied in Etheridge's illustration becomes apparent when you consider what would happen if the single triangle were to be replaced by a COLLECTION of different sized triangles, and that you used that collection of triangles to play a tune.
THEN, some of the notes would need to be more powerful and brilliant, others less so, depending on the nature of the tune. It would be an ADVANTAGE to be able to hold each triangle a little differently.
Moreover, if you think of each note of a tune on the clarinet as corresponding to a triangle, it's clear that the triangles wouldn't have equal responses, because some notes on a clarinet are brighter than others.
An embouchure needs to be FLEXIBLE, and be able to contribute to the flexibility of the other two systems we use to control the clarinet: diaphragm and tongue position. It needs to be able to be 'minimal' at some moments, and 'damping' at others. The flexibility has to operate in real time, and in the end occurs moment by moment outside consciousness in a practised player.
The fundamental requirement of the 'base' embouchure is therefore that it needs to be of a nature that allows the possibility of our learning to produce these microadjustments over our days, weeks, months and years of practice.
It cannot do so if we 'bite' -- yes, why 'biting' is wrong is that it reduces the sensitive muscle of the lower lip to the status of a piece of inert meat. (I suppose HORSE, currently, in the UK;-)
And it cannot do so if we put too much lower lip over the teeth. Then, we damp willy-nilly.
But, it cannot do so if we put TOO LITTLE lower lip over the teeth, either! Then, we cannot control the brilliance of the sound when the music requires it.
When you understand that it's important to be instantly able to NOT DAMP the sound when required, and that it's equally important to be instantly able to DAMP the sound when required, then you can proceed intelligently in forming your embouchure.
The sort of nonsense that Etheridge produces in his silly book about how various players have approached the Mozart concerto is in my view matched by his simplistic approach in this video. I'm happy that he got you thinking about folding your lower lip over to a lesser extent; but you and others need to understand these matters more deeply for yourselves in order not to go overboard in the other direction.
(Incidentally, does he inspire you? Does his recital of his credentials impress you? Does he look and sound like someone bearing the torch of excellent playing?-)
Tony
Post Edited (2013-02-17 22:07)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2013-02-17 21:06
Tony, of course you are right, even in my humble opinion.
However I have more of a tendency to have my lip over too far rather than under. I would not want that particular sound but it is an exercise that has helped me address some of my excesses.
I have recently starting playing again seriously after years of interlude and am confronting some of things that haunted me 30 years ago. I remember your playing way back then and admire it as much now as in those days........ The crusty old prof about you may scare some people but then just listening to your Frensham Pond Aquarelle makes me melt! ( Ducks and runs for cover)!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT_i64F6-Ow
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