 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: J Cohen
Date: 2013-01-06 02:27
It's all well and good until one freezes up, crashes, or runs out of charge in the middle of a concert. If I used one of those I would be sure to have the hard copy of the music on the stand too.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-01-06 03:27
Yes, I've played gigs with players using inexpensive second-hand laptops for their real book lead sheets. It seems great, but often slows up the tune selection between tunes. Drum machines on the gig also can slow up the process and make the paying customers wait between tunes.
A patent for the use of electronic displays for an orchestra was gotten by a famous big band piano and vocal maestro but I don't recall his name at the moment.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2013-01-06 05:03
I also use a Samsung/Android for playing. Not a tablet and not for sheet music, but a phone and for actually playing.
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Author: JHowell
Date: 2013-01-06 05:24
If they make an 11X17 tablet I might be persuaded. Music printed on 8 1/2 x 11 paper is small enough.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2013-01-06 16:09
I use an android tablet for much of my music now. Lessons, performances, my recital next month, teaching... It's become a big load of my shoulders, literally. No longer am I carrying a bunch of method books (for various instruments, Rose for clarinet, Ferling for oboe, Moyse and Taffenel for Flute, Weissman for bassoon, etc), or a bunch of music for each of these.
A colleague of mine and I used our tablets (he has an iPad) for a musical we were doing. It made some of the cuts a breeze! Instead of marking up the book the entire time, and having to erase all of it, we were able to literally just white out entire blocks of music so that we wouldn't miss the small, random areas of music. It was also great for some of the impossible page turns caused by some of the cuts and some because the publishers/editors didn't make great places for them. There are at least 3 notable foot pedals out now for hands free turning.
It's also great, because I can play in almost any lighting situation. If it's too dark, my tablet is always backlit and I don't need to worry about an extra stand light or anything. The batteries on tablets are meant to last a long time, many of them are meant to be used to watch movies, and at most venues, there's a power chord somewhere nearby if you're paranoid.
And with programs out for both android and iPad now, it makes it really easy to catalog and annotate your music so you can have music ready to go as needed.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2013-01-06 16:17
concertmaster3 wrote:
> and at most venues,
> there's a power chord somewhere nearby if you're paranoid.
Spoken like a true electric guitar rock star ...
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Author: kdk
Date: 2013-01-06 16:22
To those using tablets for performance and rehearsal, I'm curious about whether or not you use software that somehow re-paginates the layout to allow something close to full-size notation without running it off the sides and bottom of the page (requiring scrolling). I've experimented with this and have been disappointed that the only way to see the whole page of a PDF using standard readers is to reduce the view (zoom out) to a point where the symbols are too small for me to read comfortably. I'm with Jack in wanting a screen that's as at least as large as an 8-1/2" x 11" Xerox of the original 9" x 12" format of older pieces. If the software could reformat so that a full page containing less content at full (95-100%) size would fit on the screen, I'd be interested.
Karl
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2013-01-06 17:12
> A patent for the use of electronic displays for an orchestra was gotten by a
> famous big band piano and vocal maestro but I don't recall his name at the
> moment.
That was Harry Connick Jr. After hearing about that band I kept an eye out at the NAMM shows for music paging programs. When they started to appear, I got to ask my burning question: can you edit the score and parts while they're displayed? (I pictured bumping everybody up a half step between choruses, ha ha.) The answer was no, you could make annotations but not change the music.
John
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-01-06 18:21
John Morton wrote:
> When they started to appear, I got to ask my burning question:
> can you edit the score and parts while they're displayed? (I
> pictured bumping everybody up a half step between choruses, ha
> ha.) The answer was no, you could make annotations but not
> change the music.
>
> John
I'm sure there's someone working on a finale type program for the ipad and that will accommodate changing keys. It's only a matter of time.
As for the comments about the tablets crashing or running out of battery, the stability is very good with tablets, provided you take user precautions. Keeping the tablets free of unnecessary software (making sure the personnel aren't downloading games or personal utilities and whatnot) I'm sure would help. And all it takes is to throw it on the charger the night before a performance to keep the battery working.
I don't doubt there may be an issue here or there. I just feel the likelihood would be the same as any other issues. We've all had or seen those moments of "I forgot my music", the sheet music getting blown off a stand or falling during a quick page turn, etc. you can't protect against everything, but it's certainly worth trying.
Alexi
PS - I use an ipad for most practicing. As for sheet music size, you can look up YouTube videos of "forscore" to see the solutions and thoughts on size if music. When it comes down to it, I personally don't have too much trouble with the sheet music size and by the time I'm going to perform, the music is more of a guide and most of it is not needing to actually read every note. Pretty rare that I have to sight read something right away. In THAT case I'd be much more hesitant.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2013-01-07 16:16
Anyone worried about the size of the tablet they use to display their music can relax. According to a story in today's Washington Post, Lenovo is about to release a 27" tablet.
The bad news is that the musician will need a music stand that can support its 15 pound weight. The good news is that at that size two musicians should easily be able to read off the same stand.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2013-01-07 16:18
Most tablets that people use for reading music are the iPad (7x9") or 10" android tablets which are usually bigger than the iPads' screens. The programs also allow you to zoom in to the pdf so that you can cut out the white space around the edges of the music, bringing the size closer to that of the actual hard copy.
There are also 22" tablets out there (ViewSonic is one of the carriers) that are soon to be able to read 2 pages at a time, or one, very large page!
Also, reading the music in landscape view is an option. If you use the foot pedals to turn pages (by AirTurn, Cicada or Bili), you can have these set to turn at the half page for you, making the music even larger than the hard copies.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-01-07 18:18
Inevitably these tablets will get knocked off their music stands (how often has your music fallen off your stand?). I'd urge anyone planning to use one of these in performance to perform some shock/drop tests on them first. Better make sure the warranties cover the repair or replacement of the devices, as I can almost guarantee they won't survive too many such drops (if any).
Personally, I'll take the old-fashioned paper.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-01-07 19:16
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> Personally, I'll take the old-fashioned paper.
The only serious challenger to old-fashioned paper would be something like the Kindle DX or something similar using e-ink.
Actively lit displays (TFT etc) are much more tiresome for the eye, especially in darker environments, and can't compete in bright sunshine.
And it'd need a tripod socket so that it can be securely fastened.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-01-07 20:43
There are iPad holders that clamp onto mic stands on the market - here's one I've seen:
http://www.gear4music.com/Woodwind-Brass-Strings/Universal-Stand-and-Mount-for-iPad/KA4
I'm a bit of a technophobe when it comes to mobile phones and tablets - I don't even have a smartphone (just a basic £10 Motorola mobile off eBay) or an iPad and don't think I will invest in either for some time to come. I don't even have a sat nav.
I heard a fair while back there was a Big Band (maybe Gordon Goodwin) that used LCD screens on their stands instead of paper music. I presume they were either A4 or better still A3 sized. The problem I thought with these is how do you mark parts or if something is longer than two pages and has a D.C. or D.S., will the music just cut straight back to that so you're not able to read the music in advance?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2013-01-07 20:47)
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2013-01-07 21:52
For DS, DC, etc, I usually create a link point, and have the left pedal operate the link points if there are any. Again, this is extremely helpful for anything you have to cut up. For our concerto competition, 20+ minute long concerto with MANY cuts, some more than one page. First, I whited out any music that I didn't need, second, I created a link point from one page to the other, and the pedal (or my touch) activated the link point, and I am now 3 pages later in the score, rather than having to quickly turn the page, get my instrument set back up and delicately come in on oboe.
There are a plethora of tablet holders and such, but the likelihood of the tablet being knocked off the stand is the same as our instruments getting knocked off the stands, but we still have and use our instrument stands.
I honestly see better with my tablet in low lit situations (pit orchestras, practicing at home) when I have the light as dim as possible, and if I'm performing outside or in bright lights, I can turn the tablet up to a high lighting setting.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: davyd
Date: 2013-01-08 04:27
Pedal-operated gadgets are all very well for the reeds, brass, and bowed strings, and maybe for pianists, but how would they work for an organist or a trap-set player, or for a guitarist who uses fuzz pedals?
I'm supposing that as tablets evolve, music stands that have to support them will evolve as well, similarly to how roads have had to evolve to support bigger and heavier vehicles. O great; yet more heavy gear to lug around.
The role of the ensemble librarian will change too; librarians will need to become knowledgeable about uploading material to electronic devices, rather than distributing paper.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-01-08 05:00
Harpists will probably find an extra foot pedal to be a pain as well.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2013-01-08 07:01
There's a solution for people who need hands-/feet-free page turns.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-01-08 13:41
"There's a solution for people who need hands-/feet-free page turns."
Voice-commanded tablets? So all the musicians can yell at their music stands, "Turn, dammit! Turn NOW!"
![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-01-08 15:24
I was thinking maybe we could twitch our noses (like Jeannie on the old "I Dream of Jeannie" TV show) to turn the pages. Tongue switches? Now that's getting ridiculous.
May I propose paper music? Radical concept I realize, but it could work (as it has for centuries).
My youngest daughter, age 11, needs a new cellphone to replace the one she dropped and broke. I asked her what she uses a cellphone for. She replied "to make phone calls!". Yet she insists on an iPhone (which, as I understand, sings and dances and polishes your dog and can program and target the entire US ICBM fleet) --- just to make phone calls?
Perhaps we should step back and really think about how much "technology" (which word is often misused nowadays to mean "gadgetry") we really NEED, as opposed to what might be 'cool' to have.
Enjoy your tablet. When it drops on the floor during the concert and stops working, I'll continue playing my sheet music while you panic.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2013-01-08 17:53
Good point about the harpists having busy feet. Pedal control would also an issue for anyone who plays while standing.
Air Turn - perhaps a solution for keyboard players, as long as they don't have to sing or speak while playing. An ill-timed sneeze or cough might have devastating consequences, though.
Clearly, no solution will work for everyone.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2013-01-09 05:47
>I was thinking maybe we could twitch our noses (like Jeannie on the old "I >Dream of Jeannie" TV show)
It was actually Samantha on "Bewitched" that twitched her nose. Jeannie used to fold her arms and nod her head.
Just a bit of ancient TV trivia.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-01-09 12:39
Thanks for the correction, Marcia! Bad memory is of course one of the effects of being old enough to have seen those TV shows when they were first run....
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2013-01-09 13:16
Organist and drummers have to flip pages when using paper sheet music. Seems like touching a screen would be easier and make less noise. But you would certainly want to get comfortable with it in rehearsal before taking the plunge in performance.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2013-01-09 22:24
I have seen some "bite" switches designed specifically for drummers, harpists,etc. who need their feet to play the instrument but want to turn a page. It's just as it sounds, you "bite" on something and it activates a switch. Weird!
There are definitely ways to secure the tablet to the stand - anything from tablet specific microphone stand mounts to even some velcro on the back of the tablet and on the stand.
I'm not saying everyone out there needs to go there, but I find it interesting how our technology is now getting incorporated into what traditionally has been a sort of "it it ain't broke, don't fix it" music world. Synthetic reeds, synthetic pads, greenline clarinets of a professional quality, and now digital music on tablets being used. Personally, I embrace this stuff and like to try out the new ideas. That's my personality. Although I do have some things I tend to stay "traditional" with, in my book, if I think it looks like it could make my life a little easier and make me a little more efficient with my time, it's probably worth at LEAST looking into.
It should be a good study to see how this orchestra has transformed for better or worse after about a year when they have had time to use and get used to these tablets. I hope there'll be a followup article somewhere.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Buster
Date: 2013-01-09 22:48
Perhaps the pages can automatically turn when the clarinetist looks "incriminatingly" at the reed, or copiously and audibly blows water from a phantom tonehole upon the execution of a less than acceptable passage?
-jAsOn
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-01-09 23:46
Now...when scores are eg rent/lend-only, and reproduction is prohibited, how could the music be legally installed onto a tablet?
--
Ben
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Author: marcia
Date: 2013-01-10 04:34
>Bad memory is of course one of the effects of being old enough to have >seen those TV shows when they were first run....
Ain't that the truth?! And the truth also be that I had watched a rerun of each of those shows the previous evening. ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
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Author: Fishamble
Date: 2013-01-10 12:04
Buster: "Perhaps the pages can automatically turn when the clarinetist looks "incriminatingly" at the reed, or copiously and audibly blows water from a phantom tonehole upon the execution of a less than acceptable passage?"
The pages would be flipping too fast to see anything for me. :-)
I use my phone to photograph music at rehearsals, and a tablet to display it at home. Works a treat. Wastes no paper and doesn't cost anything.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2013-01-10 15:10
David Spiegelthal wrote,
>Enjoy your tablet. When it drops on the floor during the concert and stops working, I'll continue playing my sheet music while you panic.
>
Yes. My husband is a bookbinder. He specializes in restoring and repairing antique books. Now and then he demonstrates book conservation to local school children, when they're around 11-12 years old. He acknowledges that books have become old-fashioned technology, "...but they do have some advantages."
He picks up a hardback book, lifts it high in the air, puts a devilish smirk on his face and drops the book on the floor. (I'll admit he cheats a little bit, by dropping the bookso it lands flat on one cover, not on a corner, since hitting a hard floor on a corner of the book can separate the spine.) He picks up the book, looks it over, opens it, shrugs and says, "Oh, well. No harm done."
Then he picks up his laptop computer, lifts it high over his head with the same devilish smirk, and then lowers his arm suddenly as if he's dropping the computer. He doesn't really drop it, of course, but invariably the kids all gasp and some of them scream! Point made.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2013-01-10 15:21
"Now...when scores are eg rent/lend-only, and reproduction is prohibited, how could the music be legally installed onto a tablet?"
Legally? With the permission of the copyright owner, which permission you might be able to get if you could convince the copyright owner there will be no more total paper and tablet copies in use at any one time than the total number of paper copies you purchased.
Practically? The same way many music groups make additional paper copies when they have more players than parts: don't ask, don't tell.
It would be interesting to know how the Belgian orchestra handled copyright issues. Perhaps all the music they played was in the public domain.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2013-01-10 23:20
GeorgeL wrote:
> It would be interesting to know how the Belgian
> orchestra handled copyright issues. Perhaps all
> the music they played was in the public domain.
The music may be in the Public Domain...the typeset arrangement of the score...not so sure.
I'm just musing...I'm a "fair use" person - when we buy a piece for a concert band, and we have two flutes instead of six as per the sheet count, but eight saxes instead of the supplied six, then I have no issues with copying a sheet or two.
--
Ben
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The Clarinet Pages
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