 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-16 18:48
Anyone have any experience with them? My current Eb is an old R13 which is very nice, but it doesn't have the gadgets I'm used to, so instead of performing major surgery to it ...
... I've just bid and won this Z-series full Boehm Eb on eBay:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Selmer-Eb-Clarinet-/271119626633?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=cS31%2Fm9s4ZIztVHB4IyWuJe2Nq8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
I'm not sure if it's a Series 9 or Series 10 being a Z-series and there aren't any photos of the speaker bush which would confirm this. Did Series 9 Ebs have a metal tipped upper tenon?
Either way, I can't wait to get it! It was either this Selmer, or an old Amati full Boehm Eb from the '60s/'70s - I think I made the right choice here!
For £980 I don't think that's too much considering there are used B&H Imperial Ebs going for around £1700 and used Noblet Ebs going for around £850. New pro level Ebs being around £2500 (for a Buffet, Patricola or Yamaha) and the Selmer Recital is around £4700. A new Amati is around the £850 mark, but none of them are full Boehm which is what I want - the Recital does have the LH Ab/Eb key, but not the forked Eb/Bb, articulated C#/G# or low Eb/alternative middle Bb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-12-16 20:48)
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-12-16 21:06
Hey Chris,
I don't have any experience with them but I clocked that on ebay and thought how wonderful it looked! Let me know how you get on as I am intrigued ;-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-16 21:12
I hope I haven't upset too many others on here if they were also bidding on it!
My immediate plan for it is a complete rebuild at the earliest opportunity. The next thing is looking out for a triple case for this as well as my full Boehm set. I may have to adapt or fabricate one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2012-12-17 00:26
Chris - Based on pictures I've seen of other Series 9 Ebs, the Series 9 logo (wreath and words) appears on the bottom of the instrument, not at the top of the left hand joint as on Bb/A instruments.
Ralph
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-17 08:10
Thanks Ralph - I can't see it in the photo, so it's probably as Series 10. Then again, some Series 9s were never even stamped as such, so I'll just have to wait and see.
I can't remember if the Series 9 Ebs had a metal tipped tenon or not, but they definitely had a large hexagonal speaker bush which I can't see. The county have a nice Series 9 Eb, but I haven't seen that for nearly 15 years.
Even so, I don't mind either way - it's a full Boehm Selmer Eb. I don't know if there were many differences between Series 9 and 10 Ebs at this point time when both models were being made. There were significant differences between the Series 9 and 10 Bb/A clarinets, but I suspect there may be minor differences between their Ebs.
Have to say the Recital Eb (which is the only Eb they offer now) looks odd as the socket rings are too narrow in comparison to the joint diameter.
http://www.selmer.fr/pict.php?code=1101052011
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-12-17 09:08)
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Author: KTJ78
Date: 2012-12-17 12:22
This is what I play, but mine is a U series. Nice to see them going for so much!
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Author: KTJ78
Date: 2012-12-18 20:12
I could post a few pics, if you were asking me.
My Eb was made in '64/'65. It too has the hexagonal speaker bush, though I didn't know until just now it was called a speaker bush :-)
KTJ
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-18 20:30
That would be great - I've never seen any Selmer full Boehm Ebs until now, only Amatis which are to some extent based on them, but never an actual Selmer one. I've searched and still can't find any photos of them, so they must be pretty rare beasts or their owners rarely ever part with them.
Just had an email earlier from the seller saying it's in the post. I can't wait!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: KTJ78
Date: 2012-12-19 08:59
I'll take some pics. It looks exactly like the one you just bought :-)
KTJ
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Author: KTJ78
Date: 2012-12-19 17:27
Attachment: photo (1).JPG (244k)
Attachment: photo (2).JPG (255k)
Attachment: photo (3).JPG (255k)
Attachment: photo.JPG (258k)
Here are several pictures of my U series Selmer Eb, dating to '64/'65. You will see the low right hand Bb/Eb extension and the alternate left hand Eb/Ab key. The pads are cork on the upper half od the body and bladder on the lower half.
KTJ
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Author: KTJ78
Date: 2012-12-19 17:29
Also forgot to mention the instrument comes with two barrels, for tuning.
KTJ
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-19 23:07
Thanks for the photos!
One thing I wouldn't mind seeing in more detail is the arrangement of the articulated C#/G# mechanism just to get an idea how it's linked up to the RH rings.
The one I've bought only appears to have the one barrel, so it would be good to know what lengths both barrels are (in mm). I think Selmer Eb barrels are considerably longer than Buffet barrels which are around 41-42mm, so too short for use on Selmers. I don't know what length barrel this one is supplied with, but if it's tuning well with it, then I'll probably stick with the one it's got.
I'm planning to cork pad this one I bought right down to the B/F# 'sliver' key and leather pads for the large pad cups as I usually do when repadding clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: spage
Date: 2012-12-20 16:37
Mine's just a standard Boehm, but it's an 'A' serial so pretty close to yours and came with both barrels. They're 45mm and 46mm (warning - I am fairly brain-dozy so I may be off-by-one counting!). I find mine to be rather flat in upper chalumeau (particularly D/E) until it's warmed up, a characteristic it shares with at least one of my Series 10s although it is some cents worse than the 'standard' instruments. Once it's woken up though it's a grand little instrument.
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Author: KTJ78
Date: 2012-12-20 19:44
Any estimates on what my Eb would go for on the open market these days??
KTJ
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-20 19:48
I'd suspect your Eb would probably fetch a fair bit more than the £980 (or equivalent US $ price) I paid for this one considering yours has been repadded.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-12-21 10:47)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-12-24 10:39
Hooray! It's just been delivered! I had my fingers crossed it would turn up today.
Just as I suspected, it has silver plated keywork which is good as it matches my others (and I prefer the feel of silver plate compared to nickel plate). It comes with a 46mm barrel so once it's warmed up fully after being sat in some cold depot for the last few days I'll give it a toot to see what the tuning is like.
But it will need a good going over as it's not set-up all that well as most full Boehms I've seen weren't - it's sort of in playable condition which isn't bad considering it still has the original pads, but the rings are all set too high. But it should be a beauty once rebuilt and set up to my liking.
I wondered why it doesn't have the RH2 C#/G# 'sliver' trill key - the sawn-off end of it is there on the key barrel acting as a stopper for the C#/G# pad cup (not that it's needed) but it would just get in the way if it was fitted. Taylor Jordan's full Boehm Eb doesn't have this touchpiece either, so good to know that appears to be the norm with these. I presume it is considering I only know of two full Boehm Selmer Ebs in existence and mine is one of them.
.....
Just an update - a few hours have passed since I opened the box and let it acclimatise and I've given it a toot. Very impressive! The only niggle I have with it so far is the LH AB/Eb touchpiece is easy to catch (when going for the LH F#/C# touch) as is the LH Eb/Bb sliver key, but I'll be plugging the tonehole on that to avoid any accidents. So far so good - but it will definitely benefit with having a complete rebuild.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-12-24 13:52)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-29 13:54
Do any D clarinet parts (Till Eulenspiegel, for example) call for low E? The low Eb on your FB Eb would get that note.
Selmer Ebs from that period are in high demand. I owned one for a while but wasn't playing it all and sold it.
So Chris, how does yours play?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-29 14:32
Till Eulenspiegel is all within range on a regular Eb, but the extra length adds extra resonance on the low E and middle B - the same can be done by fitting the Fobes extension barrel to a regular Eb.
It's nice to be able to use full Boehm fingerings on Eb which I use regularly on my Bb/A clarinets such as the forked Eb/Bb, LH Ab/Eb, articulated C#/G# and using the low Eb as a middle Bb. It's a lovely little beast to play - very easy across the range and altissimo F#, G and Ab speak very easily using any choice of fingerings. It's got a much broader tone compared to my Buffet which is what I suspected but still has plenty of sweetness to it.
One thing I noticed is the LH levers are all set further away from the LH3 tonehole compared to a Bb/A clarinet which does mean a bit of a stretch - but this was after I shortened the LH Ab/Eb lever! Originally the LH Ab/Eb lever was in the way of the F#/C# lever so I kept catching it when going for a LH F#/C#. On the current Recital Ebs the LH F/C lever pillar is higher up the instrument and the LH levers are longer too, so I may do some more surgery on it to bring them all to the same relative position as my Bb/A clarinets. I do find the LH F#/C# is awkwardly positioned and it's a bit of a stretch to get it (even with relatively large hands) and it wasn't until I measured the touchpiece positions that I realised they're all further down the joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-03-29 14:53
I had the same problem with the left little finger C#/G# key. I bent the key higher and put a thicker cork under it. It's a characteristic Selmer design. I have long middle and ring fingers and short little fingers and have trouble every time I pick up a Selmer.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-03-29 15:41
I flattened out the curve of the C#/G# key to make the touchpiece point straight outwards instead of curving around the joint, so that positioned it better as before it was following the radius of the joint surface. I wish I checked the LH touchpiece positions before shortening the LH Ab/Eb lever as I could have repositioned them all, but I can still do that in time - I've got a load of old unplated Bb clarinet keys I can use for this purpose.
The LH F/C touchpiece can be replaced with a longer Bb/A one instead of repositioning the pillar up by the C tonehole and either making a new F/C lever or lengthening the existing one. If repositioning the pillars, it would be easier to make a new LH F/C lever from scratch as lengthening the key rod will mean having a solder joint or two in it along its length depending where its lengthened.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2019-11-25 03:27
I’ve just stumbled over a D serial Selmer Full Boehm Eb and wondered: is such an instrument, in good condition but with a bell ring that needs replacing, worth 900€?
In particular, how are the ergonomics? Chris‘ mods sound brilliant, but if you don’t have the opportunity to shorten the LH Eb lever, I suppose, you’ll just have to off.
The Amati Eb has a pretty nice handling, but tunes rather poorly.
Best regards
Christian
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