 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: superson
Date: 2010-08-04 14:50
Hi,
after increasing frustration with Vandoren Traditional Reeds, or more likely with clarinet reeds in general, I have decided to experiment with different reeds a little. Any recommedations?
Also, does increasing reed strength sound better? Or does it depend on the person? I can play easily on the strength I have, would I sound better if I increased the strength a bit?
Thanks
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2010-08-04 14:56
The music stores down here will usually let you try a reed before you purchase a box, maybe you could try that. Ive heard good things about Grand Concert Reeds and I'm looking in to trying them soon, as I'm getting sick of my standard Vandoren also. I put a Legere synthetic reed on my marching clarinet the other day and I really like the improvement in my sound. They do make you sound brighter though.
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2010-08-04 15:04
I know there are others on here who are more qualified than I am to give advice - but here are my two cents: I once had a teacher who used every single reed brand that she could find in the market and yet she now only plays Vandoren because she always ends up coming back for some reason for another.
I've kind of done the same: I've used Rico, Rico Royal, Gonzalez FOF, Gonzalez Regular Cut, and I've decided to stay with Vandoren mainly because my parents are sick of ordering reeds online and they seem to last longer than the Gonzalez reeds. What works for you works.
In my experience, one should only increase reed strength should he or she find that the reeds are getting too "thin" (you can usually feel if it's thin by playing it - if it doesn't vibrate well, it is exterminated quickly and bends easily). If you can easily play on the strength you have and it sounds nice, you should be fine - until you find that after you've been using your reeds long enough that you need a new strength; therefore, you switch reed strength.
-----
My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
Post Edited (2010-08-04 15:06)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-08-04 15:12
I have been using the new Japanesse synthetic reeds by Forestone for over a year and have no plans to return to Vandoran, Rico or any other arundo donax product. Forestones are basically plastic, but also have bamboo fibre mixed in which--unlike Legere--warms up the sound. They are always ready to play, require no break-in or balancing and last indefinately--never drying out or dying during a gig. The F3.5 that I started using during a performance of Peter & the Wolf in May of 2009 is still playing well. I do think that its only a matter of time before most clarinetist's start using synthetic reeds as there are just too many advantages over cane. For me, that "future" has arrived with the new Forestone reed. I can play the music without also having to "play" the reed. (I am using Forestones on all of my clarinets and saxophones in all my orchestral, wind ensemble and jazz band venues)
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2010-08-04 15:17
I also can vouch for the Forestone.
Esp with my students, I am recommending that they go with the synthetic alternatives such as Forestone and Legere so as to avoid spending most of their lesson time fiddling with reeds rather than playing.
The students that switch seem to do just fine in their seating auditions against the players that continue to support the inferior cane products that are available to the mass market.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-08-04 15:43
More as an anecdote I wanted to say that I have had really only one consistant piece of equipment over the years and that has been the use of Vandoren nr. 4 reeds. I've changed mouthpieces, clarinets, embouchures, fingerings (fingering systems), thumb positions, and yet remain faithful to the one true piece of equipment that works.
Yes, I see the advantage to some synthetic reeds (have not tried Forestone...yet). The Legere's give you constancy in really bad weather conditions (wildly fluctating, or poor humidity conditions) as well as doubling scenarios where you have to change horns a lot on the spot.
However, I have yet to play on ANYTHING that produces the sound I want with projection, center, and control like a real cane Vandoren nr. 4 reed.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-08-04 15:43
I've tried Vandoren V12s and Traditional, and have now moved on to Canyes Xilema reeds ( http://www.canyesxilema.com/index.php) I've had great success with them, with very little (if any) adjustment. I pulled out 5 of the box of 10 and all five were great sounding, and let me run up and down the clarinet with ease. I'm using an Artesana D+ cut.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: superson
Date: 2010-08-04 19:51
The Forestones sound great. My greatest annoyance with reeds is that they never seen to last me long. How long do the Forestones last?
What do people think of Rico Royal, Reserve, Grand Concert Evolution, Mitchell Lurie and in particular Rico 'La Voz' reeds. ( I saw a box of 10 for cheap and it'd be nice if they were good reeds)
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Author: Plonk
Date: 2010-08-04 19:58
I've been experimenting recently. My normal set up would be Vandoren no.3,
I just tried out Zonda no.3 (M), they were beautiful - wonderful response and consistent through the pack, but each reed died after only about a week. I don't play long - only around 20-60 minutes a day. I'm not very disciplined at breaking reeds in though, so that might be why.
Then I tried Mitchell Lurie Standard no.3 and they were incredibly soft - couldn't play them. Next I tried Mitchell Lurie Premium and upped the strength to a 4. They are still on the soft side, but quite nice. I don't get the tone I want really though, due to the softness.
I'm afraid my next purchase will probably be Vandoren again! But I think I will try the V12 or Rue Lepic rather than Traditional, just to see. I'm a bit confused as to what it means when they say the Rue Lepic is "not finished with a file cut" though.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-08-04 20:51
In the past, I played Vandorens exclusively. Since then I've moved on, come back, and now have permanently moved on.
I can second the thoughts on the Canyes Xilema that Ben Redwine imports, I have had great success with them in the past two years. That being said, I've moved back to the Rico Grand Concert Evolution because the Xilema reeds (for me) exacerbate the high overtones in my setup. My students who use the Xilemas don't necessarily experience the same issue.
I have several boxes of the Rico Reserve Classic waiting in the studio to be set up. Looking forward to seeing how they play.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: William
Date: 2010-08-04 21:58
"How long do the Forestones last?"
In my above posting, I said, "indefinately"--meaning definately longer than any ten canes reeds you will ever find. And I recently discovered that when a Forestone does soften, it can be quite easily clipped (and scraped, if necessary, just behind the tip) to restore the original strength and response. I have yet to discard a Forestone reed because it wore out. They are kind of the Ever-Ready Bunny of the world of reeds.
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Author: dansil
Date: 2010-08-05 05:25
slightly off subject - Forestone still hasn't released a dedicated bass clarinet reed. Has anybody tried using Tenor Sax Forestone reeds for bass clarinet?
Danny
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-08-05 05:58
I have had very good results from the Xilema ('professional' is my favourite). Pricey but worth it.
Don't throw away the Vandorens, they're a good comparison point.
If you sound good, your reed strength is probably right. If your sound is fat and lazy and your reeds don't seem to last like they did, you might need a harder reed.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-08-05 06:01
Bassie Xilema professional reeds are actually around the same price as Vandoren V-12 reeds in USA
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-08-05 06:33
I'd certainly have a look at one of the synthetic reeds. Personally I prefer Legere, but a friend plays Forestone, and we both think we get good results. I don't have any plans to go back to cane reeds. Despite what has been said on here, the Legeres do respond well to clipping and scraping, although I can't speak for the Forestones, never having tried to modify one. Synthetcs remove one of the variables from the experince of p;aying the clarinet.
Tony F.
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Author: William
Date: 2010-08-05 16:21
As previously stated, Forestones do not need to be scraped or balanced and always performs perfectly "right out of the box" so to speak. However, some of my F's which have softened after much use, respond excellantly to very careful tip clipping and minimal scraping just behind the tip area. They are, afterall, part bamboo fibre and accept minimal adjustment the same way a cane reed would--but with much more ease.
BTW--I have had great success shortening the length of Forestone Bb reeds for my Eb clarinet mouthpiece by clipping the butt with an electricians wire crimper. The cut is clean and the reeds play excellantly on my vintage Selmer HS** effer mpc.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-08-05 16:27
You asked about the Rco reserves, too. I have been using the Reserves for the better part of a year with very nice results. I have a box of the Reserve Classics that I bought but have not yet tried. The Reserves are quite good quality and rather consistent in their playability, once you deterine the proper strength reed for your playing.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Ronish
Date: 2010-08-06 08:57
I have a couple of Legeres that are a 1/2 to 1 strength too hard for me. We don`t have in Aus. "that send to Legere for an exchange" so I am stuck with them and they are not all that cheap.
I note above that Tony scrapes and sands his Legeres for effect, but I have been sanding furiously with neglible results. These things are tough. Tony are you sraping in a specific area to modify yours?
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Author: davetrow
Date: 2010-08-06 16:47
A question for Forestone users: what strength would correspond to a Vandoren V12 2.5? Or a Vandoren V12 3? And are Forestones easier to soften or to harden if one needs to make an adjustment?
Dave Trowbridge
Boulder Creek, CA
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Author: William
Date: 2010-08-06 21:10
I was a V12, 3.5 or 4.0 "user" before Forestones. I originally found the 3+ strength to be good, but when they changed the numbering sequence to half strength numbers, I graduated to a F4. Now, the new models are being made by a injection process that eliminates the need for hand-sanding each reed, thus saving manufacturing time but altering the hardness ratings once more. I am now finding the F4.5 & F5 reeds to match the old V12 3.5-4.0 hardness. The new model reeds play wonderfully, but have a tendence to soften with hard, continued us. However with judicial clipping--only a very small bit at a time--they can easily be brought back up to strength. Sometimes, I also scrape a little in the middle just behind the tip if I feel I clipped too much. Bottom line, they adjust quite easily and last indefinately--definately longer than any ten V12s (combined) that I can remember.
I would guess that a new model F3.5 would be a good match for a V12 2.5 of 3.0. If it's any further help, my mouthpiece is a Chicago Kaspar #14.
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Author: superson
Date: 2010-08-07 21:31
Thanks everyone, I'm looking to buy either a Forestone or Legere reed, and for the meantime have a go with a Rico Reserve or Grand Concert reed.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-08-08 16:33
Ronish, The Legere "exchange" policy on new reeds does operate in Australia. I got mine from Brass'n'Woodwind in Ormond, Melbourne, and my first choice was a bit too hard. I took it back and they exchanged it without any problems. My second choice worked perfectly. When I scraped mine, I used a packing knife blade very lightly on the last centimetre or so of reed, scraping towards the tip and working mostly on the shoulders of the reed. I used a conventional reed clipper and it took only a minute or so and worked well. Take care to scrape only a little at a time. I used a scrap of 600 wet and dry paper to put a good finish on the reed. It would probably be possible to drop half a number using the paper only, but I haven't tried it that way.
Tony F.
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Author: clarinetdawg
Date: 2012-10-29 14:33
I am a Canyes Xilema Artesana man and pretty much every reed plays well out of the box. Ocassionally one needs slight adjustment. They may cost a little more but they last longer, sound beautiful and my 20 year reed frustration is gone. I ain't NEVER looking back, Artesana all the way for me baby. Congrats Ben! (And no I don't work for him!)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2012-10-29 21:25
Yes, I've sanded Legere reeds successfully but do not use them. Silicon carbide paper will sand anything as it is a very hard abrasive.
The other day, I found an old Enduro plastic reed from the 1940s and was warming up with it at a rehearsal with a bit from the Tchaikowski 5th. Later, someone afterward told me unsolicited that it sounded really beautiful. I never use anything but a V12 #3, however.
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-10-30 10:39
I really like the Legere Signatures 3.75 strength for every day use or to save my sanity when I am having a cane reed crisis day/week. I have to say though a cane reed that is spot on sounds better than anything else. I use Vandoren V12 4's and sand them down a little with Leblanc reed rush. I have found the 3.5 Vandorens which I used in the past, way too soft these days. I really don't think it is me but they just seem to have changed somewhat?
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2012-10-30 12:14
"Author: Ronish (dsl129.202.22.---)
Date: 2010-08-06 08:57
I have a couple of Legeres that are a 1/2 to 1 strength too hard for me. We don`t have in Aus. "that send to Legere for an exchange" so I am stuck with them and they are not all that cheap.
I note above that Tony scrapes and sands his Legeres for effect, but I have been sanding furiously with neglible results. These things are tough. Tony are you sraping in a specific area to modify yours?"
Ronish,
I buy my Legeres from Brass'n'Woodwind, Ormond, Melbourne. The first one I bought was too hard and they exchanged it under the Legere exchange scheme without hesitation. If you're having trouble, take it up with Legere and see what they say.
Tony F.
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Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2012-11-01 00:56
Could you elaborate on your frustration with Vandoren?
I find that I've had issues ever since the new seal packs (or whatever they are called). They are just too moist coming from france, and they are all wonky for a few days or weeks upon being opened.
I find opening them and letting them adjust to my climate for a few days before breaking them in does the trick.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2012-11-01 05:28
I do the same thing that Sean does. Any reed that is humidity controlled is great, however, the humidity in France may not be the humidity where you live. So, if you don't let the Vandorens sit out for a while and get used to the humidity where you are, the reeds are going to change more drastically than if you just pull them out of the wrapper and start playing with them. To each their own, but I have heard from many people, who do the same thing, that it works better.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2012-11-01 10:12
I like the Rico Reed vitaliser packs. Yes, the vandoren's take some
time to adjust to changing moisture levels (maybe more so they are already humidified). But for me they work well, and while only 1 or 2 play at the (high) level of control I want, they are mostly good to play on (I use V12s).
The danger in changing had been alluded to, but I'll reiterate: it's easy to lose your perspective and to be impatient. With new reeds (try vandoren 3.5 or v12 3.5 first), you really need to assess a new box over the course of its life. And don't try to adapt too much - you need to make sure you are playing normally.
Of course you can try other brands. Vandoren have always been a good standard for me, and I tend to like the sound of those playing vandoren rather than the alternatives. And you can more accurately assess the change of strength within the same brand.
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