 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2012-10-04 20:59
They are totally uniform from my point of view. I wouldn't buy any of them.
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Author: clarinetmc
Date: 2012-10-05 00:57
Do they focus the sound easily? Reed friendly? Flexible? Basic overall qualities?
I'm used to closer, more traditional facings, but would like to try something different, as I am having trouble with my current set up.
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2012-10-05 05:48
The B40Lyre is maybe a more open than what you are searching. It's very resistant. Some say it has a "round sound" some say it's stuffy. You will nedd lighter reeds for that. The M30Lyre is between the M30 and the 5RVLyre.
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Author: clarinetmc
Date: 2012-10-05 14:56
I'm used to playing a tip opening from 101-105...but I like the advantages of the articulation from the more open mouthpieces. I have played the M30 but find it a little funky for me, a little too difficult for me to control...I've heard good things about the B40 Lyre and M30 Lyre, and have read about them on this board, but wanted some more opinions...thanks all!
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2012-10-05 16:36
I played the M30 for several years and it was/is one of my favorite mouthpieces. It's biggest assets are its warm/round sound and ease of blowing. At the time I used a V12#4 with it and it seemed to do OK WRT reed friendliness. Since that time (several years) I've learned to play softer reeds and find that perhaps a 3.5 would have been much better.
However, for some the M30 can be a bit difficult to control (not my experience) and it can have a tendency to play a little flat for some (including me). Also, unless you have a strong/focused airstream, the tone can "spread" and sound a little fuzzy.
I have tried the M30Lyre and for me it felt like a 5RVLyre, but with a much nicer sound, although I prefer the M30's sound. The M30Lyre is easier to control and has more focus and perhaps more "hold" than the M30, and seemed to play better with a bit softer reed (e.g., 3.5). I think players with a less developed airstream will find it easier to play and better in tune.
A friend asked me to try the B40Lyre and felt that my sound was much better/larger/more-colorful on this mouthpiece and I would up playing that for several years with V12#3.5s. The B40Lyre is perhaps more resistant, but I prefer to this of it as having more "hold". Since I do mostly community orchestral playing, it seemed a good move. It is also very easy to control, responds well and plays in tune.
Recently, I found myself having to perform a work with multiphonics and discovered that the more open mouthpieces made this easier. I tried a B4013 and found that it not only facilitated the multi phonics, but was a great mouthpiece in general. I play the B40 with VD Traditional #3 and Rico Reserve (not Classic) #3 reeds and find it to be VERY reed friendly. While it has some resistance, this reed strength counters that and yields a very controllable setup with a very nice, focused, resonant sound, and excellent response/intonation. Perhaps best, this mouthpiece keeps the tone nice and focused at all dynamics.
Currently, I play both a "freer" B4013 and a more "resistant" B40Lyre. I especially like this combination because both mouthpieces sound great with the same reeds (VD Traditional #3 and the Rico Reserve #3) that require very little adjustment. I find that the B4013 works better in the orchestra when I need a bigger sound with more projection, and the B40Lyre when I want a warmer, more compact sound. Although I love the M30's sound, these mouthpieces are more "middle-of-the-road" and give me more flexibility under more situations. When fitted with the right reed, they just disappear and I don't have to think about anything but the music.
Another important lesson from my experience: learn to play with a bit softer reed. Too often we are seduced by the apparent sound from a harder reed. However, I find that harder reeds can sometimes sound harsher/thinner at distance, are definitely more work, and greatly limit flexibility. While I've found that I can get good results with most mouthpieces as long as I can adjust reeds to fit them, being able to play softer reeds facilitates "reed friendliness". For me, the B4013/B40Lyre work well because they seem to require MUCH less adjustment for #3 reeds than other mouthpieces I've played.
Given all this, I would probably recommend trying the M30Lyre with about a 3-3.5 reed first. The folks I've talked to like it a lot and for many, it is less difficult to play well than the M30. You could also try the B40Lyre, but I would recommend using reeds no harder than those I cited above, perhaps starting with the Ricos as they are a tad softer than the VDs.
Good luck and remember that you'll recognize the right setup when you forget about it and just think about the music.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2012-10-06 05:23
One challenge with the M30 is its long lay. Be sure to stuff more and more mouthpiece in past your lips until it squeaks on an open G. If you don't get all the reed vibrating, it will produce a weak sound.
My M30 is my back-up mouthpiece. My preferred mouthpiece is an M30/13 that has been refaced --shorter, easier to play lay.
Bob Phillips
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2012-10-07 20:37
Both mouthpieces are very open. It is important to keep a few things in mind.
First, Vandoren makes 2 mouthpieces (3 if you count the masters series). The traditional and the 13 series mouthpiece. Looking at their mouthpiece chart, you can see that both mouthpieces are made with a wide range of tip openings and a few different facings.
Tip openings range from about 1.00mm to 1.47mm, a very wide range.
The facings in ultimate length, vary much less. They generally range from 34 to 40.
Assuming that the mouthpieces being compared are both either 13 series, or traditional, there are very few variables for comparison.
In my experience, the term "Long" for vandorens is quite long, around 40. Both mouthpieces should measure the same in this regard.
The only variable which we have for comparison (other than variation in their quality control) is the tip opening. Since closer tip openings are quicker, more responsive, require less embouchure pressure to function, and are freer blowing we can conclude that the M30Lyre would be better in these capacities.
The B40Lyre has gained some popularity, but due to the tip opening will be a more resistant mouthpiece. The tip opening will also slow down response, clarity, and require more embouchure pressure to play.
TO CONCLUDE: Both these mouthpieces are way too open for what I feel makes a good mouthpiece design. Sacrificing response, blow through, "hold" or stability, resonance, and playing comfort is not a good direction to me.
Of course, there are many people, especially in Europe, that make these mouthpieces work very well (which is why they are being produced in the first place). However, since most every mouthpiece out there is being played well by someone, it doesn't say anything about what makes a good mouthpiece design.
M13, M14 (if you can find one), M13Lyre, and M15 are all better mouthpieces. A close tip (making the job of the reed and embouchure easier) and a medium long to long facing (flexibility and blow through) is a better way to go.
"It's not just my opinion, it's physics that make an efficient mouthpiece design"
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2012-10-08 14:24
Nice post. Very helpful as I consider trying new mouthpieces!
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
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