 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2012-05-23 12:15
I've seen postings about Microphones here before, but wondering what's a really good Microphone for recording Clarinet with Strings these days that won't break the bank.
Figuring on $500-1000, and want to plug it into my Zoom, or DAT recorder.
Anything any good out there for that cost? Is Phantom power an issue with the Zoom style, or even the DAT?
Single Mic, preferably not having seperate Phantom power.
btw- I fixed the link to the Festival in my signature. (it was the wrong url before DOH!! had written chamber, instead of music)
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2012-05-23 12:32)
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-05-23 12:43
Hello Fellow Pennsylvanian,
Opening a can of worms here. Are you the designated sound designer of the concert, with access to microphone placement, or are you just a listener in the audience?
Do you have 120v access?
How many mics do you plan on recording the full concert? How many mics just for the strings/per string section?
A few things to note here:
1. The Zoom recorder, while I haven't used them, seem to be set up quite nicely as a self contained unit, so why not just let the PA system or natural reverberation from the hall "mix" you sound, and just record with what you have?
2. The Zoom recorder does not appear to have phantom power, so you would need an alternate source which requires a power outlet. Most really nice condenser mics which I would recommend for the job of recording an instrument with nice quality in this particular situation would require phantom power.
3. The Zoom extra mic input is 1/8", without a 1/4" or XLR input, which will severley limit your choices. That being said, I have used this mic with great success in the past with a mini disk recorder for Jazz concerts. Not professional by any stretch, but enough for enjoyment:
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-ECMMS907-Digital-Recording-Microphone/dp/B00001W0DT
4. The real keys to audio recording are two things, a great mic, and a great tube amp or amp simulator in the mixer. Since you won't be using a mixer, you're going to miss the "body" or "fullness" that a good mixing board amp can provide. Since you already will be missing this piece, probably no sense in dropping $700 on a good mic, when you don't have the rest of the pieces of the puzzle. No sense in buying a TV until you have a house to put it in. That being said, you probably just want a nice recording to listen to at a later date, and I think what you have currently would be sufficient.
Good luck
Drew S.
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2012-05-23 13:05
David didn't state which Zoom recorder he has.
The H4 and H4n do have XLR inputs and phantom power.
I use a Crown SASS-P MkII stereo boundary mic with my Zoom for live concerts. The unit is discontinued, but can be picked up used on the dreaded auction site among other places.
Another good choice would be the Rode NT-4.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2012-05-23 15:34
Use the Tascam. Make sure you set your record levels manually, rather than relying on the ALC.
I avoid DAT these days. Tape degrades.
The iPad would need some type of outboard interface/mic pre. Although, a Blue Yeti would probably work well with it - assuming the iPad has a standard size USB input.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-05-23 17:57
The Tascam should be completely fine. DAT is ok too, but just more hassle for what it's worth (Mic cable, it's bigger than the Tascam, need to purchase a new mic)
You're still working with 1/8" inputs, so your choices are limited.
If you have USB access to something (computer or maybe the iPad has), you could start with this:
http://www.themusicden.com/p-251322-blue-icicle-xlr-to-usb-adapter.aspx
I haven't used them, but it's a mic preamp and phantom power, so it should give you a nice(er) color, as well as providing power if you want to get a nice shotgun condenser mic like the akg 1000.
That being said, I still thing there are far more pieces to the puzzle that you don't have access to in making a noticeable auditory difference (micing all instruments singly, having someone adjust levels during the concert, lots of buying power for all these things), so your return on investment wouldn't be that great. The Tascam is built for the purpose you're describing, so maybe sticking with that is best. Plus, I'm pretty sure you'll get a stereo sound on the tascam, as opposed to the mono you would get from using only one mic.
Drew S.
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Author: mvjohnso
Date: 2012-05-23 19:23
I agree with Drew, on the point that you should just stick with the tascam. As, with any other set up you are pretty much guaranteeing a mono sound (as the rest would only allow for one mic). You could try running multiple recording set ups at the same (warning: there is no guarantee that they will sink up afterwords unless you have them all connected to one master). Though this may not work, with a little bit of audio editing (Audacity (free) should do the trick) one could put the recordings together, also you can just take the best of the two as well. IMHO the biggest factor in quality recordings is mike placement. With the tascam I would put it on the stage, however one could record from the room. If you do decide to use the Ipad or the multiple set up I would go with a Blue Snowball. As, the mike pattern (omnidirectional) lends itself to room recordings much better than a Cardiod (AKG 1000, at least in one of its patterns the other is a shotgun) mike. A omnidirectional mike takes sound from all sides, whereas cardiod mikes have an area of attenuation (they don't pick up sound) in the rear section of the mike (which can be good in cases where isolation is need, lets say a loud audience). That pattern (omni) allows for a truer and more realistic room sound and reverb, as it will catch as many of the sound reflections as possible. With both the omni and the tascam you will have something close to a decca tree array, that is with out a properly set up a/b pair (as a true a/b pair would be spread out significantly more); and, decca tree array and their hybrids (ie the replacement of the center mike with different mike pairs) are the state of the art when it comes to mike placement and combinations.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2012-05-23 19:30
David,
Like you, I am the performer/faux sound engineer for my chamber concerts and my concerts are also with strings (often with strings and piano).
I use a Zoom H4 (the Zoom with xlr inputs and phantom power) and Studio Projects mics (http://www.studioprojectsusa.com/) which are very affordable for their quality.
You could use the built-in mics of the Zoom but once you record with external mics, you'll never go back. I notice you are looking for a single mic, but if you are going to put a single mic on stage, why not put two mics and benefit from the improved depth and separation 2 mics give you?
I noticed that a lot of halls made their archival recordings with two mics placed at the front of the stage (onstage), far enough apart to be out of the audience's line of vision.
I copied this technique for my concerts and was surprised by the sound quality.
Listening to a recording with the mics in this position, you can't tell the mics are not in front of the stage. Perhaps the sound is good because even off to the side, the mics are still in front of the performers.
For times when you can't bring mics and cables to the concert, you can use the Zoom's internal mics, with the Zoom either on a mic stand (if recording the concert is OK) or poking out of a coat pocket (if recording the concert is a grey area).
Simon
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Author: sowilson
Date: 2012-05-24 19:51
Look into mic's like the Rode NT4 or Beyer MCE72. Both can run on internal batteries (i.e. doesn't need phantom power) and terminate into 3.5mm stereo mini plugs. I usually use a pair of Neuman KM-84's (or 86's) for this but that would be out of your price range
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-05-24 22:27
David -
I use a Marantz PMD671 recorder, which supplies phantom power to external condenser mics.
As to the mics to get, I've made very decent recordings with two $19 Sony electret condensers and a Sony Walkman Pro cassette recorder. First generation dubs from that setup had more presence than something passed through half a dozen generations of professional equipment.
On the other hand, several (!) years back, when I had a little money to spend, I got a $500 Sony 1-piece stereo condenser mic and made some test recordings with the quintet I was in. The flutist set up his pair of Neumann KM-84s, which blew the Sony away. On the Sony, I could clearly hear each player's individual sound. On the Neumanns, I could clearly hear each player's individual sound of inhaling. You owe it to your ears to at least listen to Neumanns. The current model KM-183 has a cardioid pickup pattern, and two of them can be mounted on a single stand. You'll pay $1600 for a pair, but nothing cheaper is even close.
Ben Maas says he usually uses Coles 4038 ribbon mics for clarinet recordings, but they go for $1300 each.
The Schoeps MSTC 64G ORTF is a 1-piece system that sells for $3,689.00.
If you think clarinetists suffer from GAS (Gear Accumulation Syndrome), you ain't seen nuttin' til you meet recording nuts.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2012-05-25 12:45
I have used a Sony....cost around $100.....that Sony recommended to use with their Mini Disc. After listening to one of my recordings I became convinced that sometimes one is just well off not knowing. P.S. using Audacity it is now possible to transfer Mini Disc recordings to computer.
Bob Draznik
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