 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2012-03-26 03:46
Hi, I'm new to this board and the clarinet. I've been playing a Bb for around 2 weeks and alto sax for 2 years.
I just bought a really cheap Vandoren 5RV Lyre mouthpiece that I didn't realise until now most likely isn't a 'Series 13' (A=440).
Will using this A=442 5RV Lyre on my Yamaha 34 be a really stupid thing to do? Will I be way too sharp?
I currently play with good tuning throughout the lower and higher registers.
I don't have the mpc yet, it's coming from someone in Germany, but I'd like an idea of what to expect intonation-wise and whether I should just fork out for another Series 13 model.
Thanks!
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-03-26 04:16
You should be fine with the regular series mouthpiece. Just pull out if you need to. Just practice as much as you can to really get to know your instrument so when you do upgrade in the future, you know exactly what you are looking for in gear.
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
Post Edited (2012-03-26 18:33)
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2012-03-26 04:29
Yes, I was impulsive when I snapped this one up - not something I normally do.
I'll try pulling out a little once it's in my hands, thanks.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-03-26 09:34
The intonation designation is a misnomer. The company means only that one mouthpiece generates a sound a little lower than the other (the resulting actual pitch for your middle 'B' on a Bb clarinet is wholly up to you and the horn).
In fact it has long been my contention that this ALL got started when some custom mouthpiece makers attempted to attract consumers with the siren call of a 'dark sounding mouthpiece' by making their tone chambers bigger and thus actually lowering the sound they produced slightly. What happens then in this case is that you lower the sound of the the clarinet note MORE for notes at the physical top of the horn MORE than subsequent notes that are physically LOWER on the horn. This messes up the the tuning of the twelfths (the clarinet does not use octaves) and leads to (in my STRONG opinion) even more fundamental problems than you would have if you didn't mess with the attempt at 'dark sounding mouthpiece' in the first place.
Vandoren's 13 Series is a guise for this shot at 'darker sound' since their original (and still non-series 13 mouthpieces) are just fine.
You (in my opinion) have the superior mouthpiece by far. Do NOT even introduce the above issues into your playing. You'll save years of undoing technique built up to compensate for bad equipment (not to mention the expense of unnecessary barrels to compensate for this as well).
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-26 11:33
A 5RV Lyre is good choice in that it will play on the sharpish side as it's much easier to flatten a note than to sharpen one, plus it's an easy mouthpiece to get on with and you'll find the top notes will speak much easier with it.
If you had a 13 series and found it plays too flat, there isn't much you can do as it's more tricky to play up to pitch on them - a shorter barrel is a remedy in some ways but could be a curse in other ways.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2012-03-26 18:27
dubrosa22 - see the following thread for a full discussion on the drawbacks of a Series 13 mpc:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=322516&t=322338
In short, a Series 13 mpc does not help you play at 440. Because of its design, a Series 13 mpc simply plays disproportionally flat in the throat tones. Trust me. I have played professionally on Series 13 mpcs in the past. Even having the mpc shortened by 2 mm I was sometimes too low.
Simon
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-03-26 18:42
I have heard what Simon Aldrich has said by some other players however this hasn't been the case for me.
I remember when I switched from a Hawkins B to the M3013 I was shocked that the throat tones more consistent overall and middle B which was always sharp was lowered to the appropriate setting. Overall the M3013 evened out my pitch in a way that was much more agreeable to me.
Once again I will say that everyone is different. Get to know your clarinets and performing situations and then make the choice that best works for you.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-26 21:03
I shortened the tenon on my "13" Series M15 by around 2mm and still had to work hard to play up to pitch on it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-03-26 21:58
There is a mouthpiece maker who makes 'low' mouthpieces and offers a 'European pitch' (higher) version by making it several millimeters shorter. The foreshortening does not really work in my opinion because the origin of this problem is the over sized internal dimensions.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2012-03-27 01:09
Thank you Paul, Chris, Simon and James for all of your input in this matter.
I'm very pleased to hear that buying this traditional non-series 13 mouthpiece has been a fortunate fluke.
Obviously I'm not the only person who finds Vandoren's own marketing on the purpose and proper use of these mouthpiece variants completely bewildering. Many 440 players of any make of clarinet seem to buy the series 13!
Surely Vandoren should be clarifying the knowledge about their product rather than muddying the waters.
My teacher says that I have good intonation (for a sax player!) and I can adjust very readily, so I'm very happy I don't have a mouthpiece that is flatter by design! I'll listen for any undue sharpness in the upper register however.
Thanks again!
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