 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2012-03-16 16:54
I currently play a Linton bass clarinet with the single register vent. However, I've been considering the purchase of one that uses the manual double register vent, the one with two register keys. I understand German horns still use this, but would it be hard for someone to learn? My biggest concern is that I do play a lot of fast pieces up in that register on the bass clarinet. Switching between the two register keys seems at a fast speed cumbersome. Any thoughts?
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-03-16 17:36
Most of the manual double register clarinets I've seen has the two keytouches right next to each other so it is only a matter of sliding your thumb over. I suspect it would take a little while to get used to but probably wouldn't be that big of a deal.
From what I've seen the German bass clarinets are using automatic register mechanisms these days but perhaps this is a recent change. In any case a manual double register boehm bass clarinet is likely to be quite old. Probably pre-1930's. I wouldn't recommend investing much money in an instrument that old unless you are more interested in it as a collection piece rather than an instrument for normal use.
Are you asking about a certain no-name German-made low-C bass clarinet that has come up for sale repeatedly over the last several weeks?
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2012-03-16 17:46
That one tempted me, yes. But I've seen several bass clarinets with this feature and was wondering about them in general. I played one once, but didn't get to spend much time with it. I've never actually heard of anyone playing one before, other than the German bass clarinet players but as you said it seems they've made the switch.
Post Edited (2012-03-16 17:47)
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-03-16 19:04
Kontra wrote:
> That one tempted me, yes. But I've seen several bass clarinets
> with this feature and was wondering about them in general. I
> played one once, but didn't get to spend much time with it.
> I've never actually heard of anyone playing one before, other
> than the German bass clarinet players but as you said it seems
> they've made the switch.
>
I've only seen a manual double regist bass once before and have never played one. I'm not sure exactly when most makers started using the automatic mechanism but I suspect that it was probably 75+ years ago so it shouldn't be surprising that few people play them today.
Regarding that specific bass, judging from the style of the case and keywork I suspect that it is probably 90+ years old. The design is quite odd in that it looks like a "shorty" low-E bass with a grafted low-C extension except that this one appears to have been made that way from the factory. I find it peculiar that the low-Eb has no pinky key touch and can only be played with a thumb hey. Seems like a strange design choice but perhaps that suggests that it was made at a time when low-C basses were just entering the market.
Personally I wouldn't want to use an instrument this old as an every day player as I'm skeptical that it would have decent intonation. At least the seller allows returns so you could try it out without getting stuck with it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-16 19:04
From what I've seen while looking up German basses, they have a fully automatic speaker mechanism but with two left thumb touches, so one of the touches works in fully automatic mode whereas the other touch is semi automatic one and is overridden by the other one (but I don't know exactly which vents are controlled by which key as I can't find any detailed photos of the mechanism). So that makes switching from one thumb key to the other much easier and smoother as you don't have to remove your thumb completely off one thumb key to operate the other one.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-03-16 21:41
Reputedly the best bass clarinet ever belonged to Lucien Caillet in the Philadelphia Orchestra. It was a Selmer (I'm pretty sure), went down to Eb and had double register keys. It eventually came to Stephen Freeman in the New York Philharmonic, who played it as was for several years and then had an automatic mechanism installed.
The single-key automatic mechanism was unreliable, particularly on the older Buffets. Current basses by Buffet, Selmer and Yamaha will still go out of adjustment if you drop the instrument, but otherwise they're OK. For me, the jumping back and forth is too risky. I think most European oboists players use a fully automatic octave key system, though American oboists stick to a manual switchover, I think more as a matter of superstition than anything else. Adolph Sax put double octave keys on his saxophones, but I know of no one who prefers, or even uses, such a mechanism, except those who specialize in playing original Sax instruments.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-16 23:05
There's an older Buffet bass pictured here which has a funny set-up for the automatic speaker vents - a link on the top joint is triggered by the underside of the LH E/B lever touch to switch the vents over. I don't know how reliable that is in practice but it sounds like a total nightmare.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2012-03-16 23:30)
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2012-03-16 23:58
Chris P wrote:
> There's an older Buffet bass
> pictured
> here which has a funny set-up for the automatic speaker
> vents - a link on the top joint is triggered by the underside
> of the LH E/B lever touch to switch the vents over. I don't
> know how reliable that is in practice but it sounds like a
> total nightmare.
>
I've played one of those old Buffet Professional basses - your assessment is pretty much on the money. The E/B key is very heavy.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-03-17 07:13
>> Reputedly the best bass clarinet ever <<
There is actually a better one.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-03-17 14:05
Clarnibass -
So let us know what it is. . . .
For several years, I owned a Buffet bass made in the mid-1960s, set up Kalmen Opperman, which was the best one I've played. People borrowed it several times to use for auditions, and Kal said that Ronnie Reuben (Philadelphia Orchestra) sought out that model for his students.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-03-17 22:14
Just a quick one on oboes with fully automatic 8ves - they're mostly popular in Germany and Eastern Europe, but you'll find that more and more players there are playing oboes with semi-automatic 8ves as is the norm in Italy, France, Spain, UK and elswhere {the UK is still the last stronghold of thumbplate and dual system players).
A lot of Japanese oboists and others who studied in Germany play on fully automatic oboes. Older oboes made in China (such as Lark and Hsinghai) were copies of the old ring key Moennigs with fully automatic 8ves and some are still being made now as there seems to be a lot of them on eBay.
The only bass clarinet I've worked on with simple action speaker keys was an old Conn which went to low E. It wasn't too bad an instrument but it took some getting used to when switching the speaker keys over cleanly. I converted the original solid LH1 fingerplate to one with an aperture in the centre (drilled a 2mm hole through it and hard soldered a piece of tubing to the inside) and soldered an extension piece on it as that made the altissimo easier.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2012-03-17 23:07
In reply to your original question, I once played for a week on an old Buffet bass with 2 manual register keys. It was not difficult at all and in one way it was much easier: you can change register keys when you want to, not when an automatic device does it for you. You can play a difficult passage with one register key or pick an easier spot to make the change.
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Author: Bill Patry
Date: 2012-03-19 00:49
Attachment: photo.JPG (133k)
Sorry about the last abbreviated post. I tried to add an attachment and then it wouldn't let be add any more text. When I exited, it automatically posted my message and then wouldn't let me edit the post that I never asked to be posted. It turns out to be much much harder to post properly than to work the German bass register keys. I have two German basses, a 1969 Fritz Wurlitzer and a two year old Schwenk & Seggelke. I attach (hopefully) a photo of the Schwenk register keys, the longer one on the right being for the upper register.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-03-19 01:48
For about the last year or so I've been playing on two very different double manual register vent bass clarinets; one is Boehm system (a "mutt" featuring a hard-rubber Harry Bettoney upper joint) and the other is an Oehler-system F. Arthur Uebel instrument. It has taken me a while to get used to the switching of register keys but, like anything else, eventually becomes second nature (or nearly so!).
Post Edited (2012-03-19 02:51)
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