 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: aev
Date: 2012-02-21 23:30
Does anyone know the approximate maximum volume a of bass clarinet? I'm thinking buying or building a 'soundproof' practice room and need to figure out how much sound reduction I need.
Of course, the maximum volume (in decibels) varies with frequency and distance. Presumably higher notes are loudest, so if you have any measurements, please post the pitch and distance.
I've been looking all over the internet, but I haven't found this information anywhere, not even for the the b-flat clarinet, let alone the bass.
thanks
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-02-21 23:38
Ummmm.........
You may actually run into an issue with the peg transmitting sound through to your downstairs neighbor's ceiling as well.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-02-22 00:15
When I play, sound level meters record 146dB at 1m, approximately the same as the Space Shuttle main engines at liftoff. If I have a good reed.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2012-02-22 04:35
Not loud enough when it has a solo. Too loud the rest of the time. Or perhaps not.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2012-02-22 05:54
In terms of absolute volume levels the instrument *may* be capable of, I'm not sure. In terms of whether or not that maximum level may be irritating to the neighbors, that's another matter entirely, at least in part depending on apartment construction, any sound deadening (or transmission) that may be accomplished by walls and floors already, what time of day or night you may be playing, etc., and I'm not sure what value absolute statistics would be there.
For example, at the moment my neighbors have the stereo going. It's pretty loud, too. But the only parts of the recording I hear are the electric bass and the kick drum, both of which are highly compressed sounds at a specific frequency range (e.g. between say 50hz and 1,000 hz), and for some reason that's the frequency range that gets picked up and transmitted by floor and walls; every frequency above that is pretty well muffled by the "stuff" between the 2 apartments.
If they were practicing bass clarinet instead, the sound would be a good deal less compressed, with lots of harmonics above 1khz in addition to the fundamental notes, but frankly I doubt that I'd hear it--whereas, if they were practicing honkin' rock tenor sax, THAT would be another matter. But that's me, not you, and that's leaving aside the vagaries of apartment construction WITHOUT any soundproofing added.
It's an interesting question you ask, one I've thought about over the years, since I'd also like a practice space in the apt. that wouldn't leak sound and bother the neighbors. I'm able to practice during the day, though, when most of my neighbors are at work, and I consider a certain amount of daytime practicing perfectly OK, and well within what's acceptable.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-02-22 07:05
Yes, the lower (in pitch, not reputation) an instrument is, the further away from humans it should be practiced, as the building transmits those frequencies better. (We can hear the washer hum three stories below if we press the ear against the wall)
That's why high pitch instruments like piccolo or bagpipe can be practiced without ill side effects even in the bedroom where your partner tries to sleep. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Campana
Date: 2012-02-22 07:37
I would think you would need about 25 db reduction. 110 db is painful to the ear and 120 db is damaging, so I doubt you'll be producing more than 110 db.
I think 85 db would be a reasonable target figure to aim for.
Sound pressure measurement is logarithmic and a doubling of power results in an increase of 3 db so if one clarinetist makes a sound level intensity of 85db, 2 would make 88 db, 4 would make 91 db, 8 = 94 and it would take another 8 to reach 97 db.
There is a scale, dba, which takes into account the effect on the human ear and allows for the differing effect of variable frequencies. However this is through air and probably would give unreliable results through proper accoustic insulation.
Many people think that sound insulation and thermal insulation are similar but they are not. Apart from the obvious qualities of being non conducting and non reflective to sound, the material needs to be dense, very dense for an apartment so that you do not lose too much space.
The other approach used for commercial applications is to massively increase the surface area so that it can be made with sound absorbing, non reflecting material, the anechoic chamber, not suitable for apartments
Post Edited (2012-02-22 07:38)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-02-22 13:31
>>You may actually run into an issue with the peg transmitting sound through to your downstairs neighbor's ceiling as well.
>>
You can reduce the chance of the peg (and the clarinet itself) transmitting sound by playing on a carpet, and also by inserting the peg into a rubber "biscuit" of the type cello players use to prevent the cello peg from sliding on the floor.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2012-02-22 16:15
If you are planning wall construction, consider staggering the wall (and ceiling and even floor) studs so that they alternate walls they support as (primarily for lower frequencies) and do not provide a sound path (like 'bone conduction) between adjoining rooms, along with 'weaving' acoustic insulation between the studs in the walls. Also consider surfaces or coverings that have more mass and absorption that are isolated from the wall.
If your cat will sleep in the next room, it's good enough.
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Author: Campana
Date: 2012-02-22 16:30
...If your cat will sleep in the next room, it's good enough...
Not in my case. As a beginner, my practicing is not wonderous to behold (or listen to). But my cat seeks me out, when I start, and will either try to sit on my shoulder or when I discourage that, she sits on top of the back of the nearest armchair.
I think she is concerned that I am in pain
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2012-02-22 17:53
Soundproofing a practice room depends on whether you're in an owned or rented space. If rented, you pretty much have to make a box that fits in a room. You can reduce transmitted sound considerably (note the scientific quantification here) by putting the peg on something sound-absorbing and blocking up the cracks around the door. Light fixtures and electrical sockets may be acoustically leaky.
In an owned space, first deal with door cracks, and probably hang a door on the other side of the door frame so the sound has to pass through two doors. Staggered studding is next most important. Good acoustic paneling probably comes next. If you panel every surface, the room will approach anechoic, so now you need some reflective panels inside the absorbing ones so the room has a decent feel. (Don't have two parallel panels facing each other, or you'll create standing waves.) Putting your studio in the basement solves the floor problem; in the attic, the ceiling problem. Outside walls are probably thermally insulated enough to deal with sound, so a room in the corner of the house is good.
If there is a particular frequency that is a nuisance, build a long box with a slot in it so that the Helmholtz frequency of the enclosure matches what you are trying to kill, and line that with sound-absorbing material.
Search under recording studio rather than practice studio to get much more detailed information.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-02-22 18:28
If you're not afraid of confined spaces, and have a fondness for cult TV series, this might be something for you:
--
Ben
Post Edited (2012-02-22 18:28)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-02-22 19:26
I think Ben is on to something there.....How about a used MRI chamber from the local hospital? Or a discarded walk-in freezer from a food store or restaurant? Or a used vault from a bank?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-02-22 19:32
Actually, my teacher had a "practice cabin" in his room. Slightly larger than the one in the picture, but the concept is/was the same.
--
Ben
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-02-22 20:17
tictactux wrote:
> Actually, my teacher had a "practice cabin" in his room.
> Slightly larger than the one in the picture, but the concept
> is/was the same.
>
There are companies that sell portable practice booths.
http://www.whisperroom.com/
Unfortunately they are quite spendy. The smallest one that is about the size of a phone booth sells for ~$2600.
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2012-02-23 14:58
I am familiar with the concept of some clarinet players warming up for a group rehearsal by playing as loudly as possible. I assume psychologists have some fancy term for this tendency which means "notice me."
However, since I am relatively unfamiliar with the concept of practicing by myself at home (that just is not my thing), I must ask: Why would someone practicing alone want to play as loudly as possible?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-02-23 15:07
>>I think Ben is on to something there.....How about a used MRI chamber from the local hospital? Or a discarded walk-in freezer from a food store or restaurant? Or a used vault from a bank?
>>
Those who think Ben was serious about that police box representing a confined space might want to Google: T.A.R.D.I.S.
I'm sure it's got a practice room in there somewhere!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: aev
Date: 2012-02-23 15:28
Whisperroom (a commercially available 'practice room') claims a sound reduction of ~30 - 45 db for the range of a bass clarinet. From what people have posted, it sounds like this would be adequate. Whether I can afford one is another matter (there are several companies making products like this, but they are all very expensive).
One of the biggest problems in apartments is reducing noise transmission upward (I currently have neighbors above me). It really requires building false ceiling, no small matter.
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Author: alto gether
Date: 2012-02-23 20:44
They're not all very expensive. Whether the ones that cost a few hundred dollars would meet your needs is a different question.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2012-02-23 22:26
Hi,
I saw where an old pal (Ken Kolb who used to frequent this BB) converted a bi-fold door closet into a mini-recording studio. Depending on what the closet backed-up on (hopefully not a neighbor's bedroom) that might be a possibility.
But when I see the things that they make now for sax players which is a fiberglass-sort of case, I'd investigate modifying a cardboard box using sponge rubber inside. A left and right arm hole with the neck sticking out...
It's a "wrap the instrument" approach.
You have a huge advantage here. With the BC in the normal playing position, the cardboard box sits on the floor in front of you. Open box, insert BC, close lid around neck, reach in, and play away. Your music stand is in front and you can but a rubber pad under the box to more completely acoustically uncouple the peg from the floor.
HRL
Post Edited (2012-02-24 00:37)
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