 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: oca
Date: 2012-01-13 08:14
Why do people have multiple clarinets in different keys?
You can go one step lower on A clarinet.
You might be able to go higher on Eb clarinet but your lower range is limited 5 steps.
I hypothesize that it just makes playing in different keys easier, but then a little extra practice on your Bb would resolve the problem as well.
And if this is truely the reason, why is Bb soprano the dominant clarinet instead of C clarinet?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-13 08:37
>> Why do people have multiple clarinets in different keys? <<
It's a compeition. The person with most clarinet in most keys wins
>> why is Bb soprano the dominant clarinet instead of C clarinet? <<
As any contrabass player can tell you, Bb is actually subdominant
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-01-13 13:39
oca wrote:
> I hypothesize that it just makes playing in different keys
> easier, but then a little extra practice on your Bb would
> resolve the problem as well.
In some cases you can just use a single instrument and transpose. This is really the reason for the existence of Bb clarinets with the low Eb key. It gives them the same range as an A clarinet and allows the player to play any part written for Bb or A clarinet on a single instrument.
This may sound like a good idea on paper but I really haven't seen many people actually do this and I think that is due to 3 primary reasons.
First, most players would probably prefer to not always have to transpose when playing an A clarinet part, especially if it is a fairly long part or written in a key that will result in a particularly large number of sharps when transposed. It's often just easier to have a second instrument.
Second, clarinets with the low Eb extension are heavier than standard configurations. Considering that some people already complain about the weight of normal clarinets this would be a problem for a fair amount of players.
Third, clarinets with the low Eb extension are not particularly common these days. The only new off-the-shelf models I know of are the Amati 615 and the Patricola CL4. Not exactly a large selection.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2012-01-13 13:47
Before the clarinet had all of the keys it does today, it was very limited in what notes could be played. So clarinetists had clarinets in all different keys. With the addition of keys, all of the notes were easily accessible on two clarinets, A and Bb. It just became tradition after that. Eb clarinet was added for an extra range, and color.
By your argument though, one could say that the bass clarinet is cutting out at least an octave of the range of a soprano clarinet. Composers know what they want to hear (usually), and know the range of the instrument so they can use all or part of what they need.
And as an antidote...Clarinets cost at least 1/2 the price of other instruments! I can easily spend $6000+ on an oboe, for most entry level professional models, for that money you can buy a set of R13s!
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-13 13:54
Have you seen the prices if Leblanc clarinets lately? They're right up into oboe territory!
From what I've been told, the Bb and A clarinets became the main soprano clarinets for orchestral playing due to their tone quality which is much fuller than the tone of a C clarinet. But don't shoot the messenger if that's wrong as that's what I'm lead to believe.
The Eb clarinet has a different tone colour which is far more shrill than a Bb or A and is used to great effect by composers like Mahler as it can cut right through the orchestral texture. Bass clarinets are especially great as they can whisper the low notes which bassoons can't do.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nessie1
Date: 2012-01-13 16:10
However I always wonder why on earth nobody has ever edited the hornpipe section of the Henry Wood fantasia on British Sea Songs for A clarinet - it makes it so much easier to play than trying to finger it in written B major (on A clarinet you're in C) and there is bags of time to change instruments and back again afterwards. In fact what I have done when I have played the piece is just play it on the A from memory/by ear.
Vanessa.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-01-13 16:48
Chris's thoughts on ideas of tone color are a big part of it. One will never find a B-flat clarinet that has the "darkness" of an A clarinet, and an Eb clarinet cannot ever sound like a Bb clarinet. It's like a flute and piccolo-- the piccolo can play in the same range as the flute, but the tone is not appropriate.
Oh yes Vanessa. I had an ensemble placement audition for Les Toreadors, and I believe it was originally written for A clarinet-- C major. The clarinet professor did well to torture us when he found some janky part for Bb clarinet-- B major. I seriously considered playing it on my A...
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-13 17:08
The whole Intermezzo movement from Kodaly's "Hary Janos" suite is much easier played on an A than the published Bb part. Likewise with the 2nd movement of Dvorak's 9th - it may be in concert Db, but change the key signature in the clarinet parts from Eb Major to E major when playing it on an A clarinet (in the A section - the B section in concert C# minor is written for A clarinet anyway) and there's no need to change clarinets at all for the entire symphony if you do that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Trevor M
Date: 2012-01-13 17:50
The prominence of the Bb clarinet might also come from the need for that instrument in military wind bands, which have tended to be in Bb/Eb tunings rather than the C tunings favored by orchestral instruments... this is probably also why the Bb and Eb type saxophones won out over the F and C 'orchestral' models that Sax created in parallel.
I read about a rear-guard action fought by people like Debussy at the Paris Conservatory to keep all the 'other' clarinets in service because of the various tone colors they provide (i.e. the mellow but nasal C clarinet), but the 20th century was one of pruning down instrument families rather than expanding them. Hopefully that trend is reversing, since I think every household should have two - possibly three - Ab and D clarinets.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-01-14 16:58
It is true that the develoment of the clarinet is the reason for having the Bb, A and C clarinet. There is also a D and of course Eb. Some orchestra players transpose some Eb parts onto a D clarinet if they own one because it makes the passages easier, conversley, if they don't have a D clarinet then they transpose the D parts onto their Eb clarinet. It's the same with C clarinet parts. So many orchestral players do not own a C clarinet so we transposed most of them from the Bb clarinet, sometimes from the A clarinet if it lies better but not nearly so often.
I think sometimes it would be difficult for someone too identify if a player is playing an orchestral part on the Bb or A clarinet especially if they were not fully familiar with that players tone quality. It is not uncommon to transpose a given passage in the orchestra from one to the other, Bb to A or A to Bb to make that passage easier to play smoothly or to avoid a quick change. Sometimes composers forget that it takes a few seconds to switch from one to the other. I've had parts that required me to change from bass to clarinet or visa versa in two- three beats. I believe the C clarinet became much less preferred because it doesn't have as mellow a tone as the Bb and A. Can one imagine having to play the Mozart Concerto or Quintet on a Bb clarinet, or the Neilsen Concerto on the Bb clarinet, no thanks. ESP
eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-14 17:29
"I think sometimes it would be difficult for someone too identify if a player is playing an orchestral part on the Bb or A clarinet especially if they were not fully familiar with that players tone quality. It is not uncommon to transpose a given passage in the orchestra from one to the other, Bb to A or A to Bb to make that passage easier to play smoothly or to avoid a quick change."
Thankyou Ed! I know I've mentioned it before but I got moaned at for playing an A clarinet (as the clarinet solo was in concert A Major and I was buggered if I was going to play it in B Major) by two pit players, one of them was the drummer (who also plays clarinet and sax) who tried to argue the case that an A clarinet's got a competely different sound to a Bb. Define the term different - as different as a clarinet is to a soprano sax? The one who started the arguement struggled with a fairly simple intro in D major and the one that played drums on this occasion played a clarinet solo on soprano sax. At least in this instance (it's the Reed 2 book in "Annie") I was playing it on clarinet, and A clarinet at that and I doubt anyone else in the pit orchestra, on stage or in the audience would've been any the wiser. I'm doing this same show in February and glad to see the two aforementioned players haven't been booked. There - rant over.
But if an A clarinet or any other soprano clarinet other than a Bb clarinet didn't sound clarinet-like at all, even when played by the same player, then composers wanting a solo played in a key that would otherwise be awkward or out of range for the player on a Bb, they simply wouldn't use the other pitch clarinets if they didn't sound like clarinets.
Clarinet makers strive to make their Bb and A instruments as similar as each other so they don't feel too different to the player or sound too different. So you will find the same model A clarinet may even have a smaller bore and toneholes compared to its matching Bb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Trevor M
Date: 2012-01-14 17:55
"But if an A clarinet or any other soprano clarinet other than a Bb clarinet didn't sound clarinet-like at all, even when played by the same player, then composers wanting a solo played in a key that would otherwise be awkward or out of range for the player on a Bb, they simply wouldn't use the other pitch clarinets if they didn't sound like clarinets."
Yeah, I think people give way, way too much credit to composers when it comes to these micro-subtleties within an instrument family. These are the same people that apparently don't understand that you can't switch to a bass clarinet in three beats without a decent chance of knocking over the music stand. I got to write a big brass piece for local community orchestra, and my composition professor advised me to write for C trumpets rather than Bb- why? Well, because those guys would be very proud of owning them.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Lowry
Date: 2012-01-14 19:58
Then there's Stravinsky's Three pieces for solo clarinet, with the first two "preferably Clarinet in A" and the third "Preferably Clarinet in Bb," at least according to my International edition. Sherman Friedman has this to say:
"These are usually and correctly performed on the A clarinet for movements 1 and 2 and on Bb for the final movement. It makes very good sense to perform the pieces in the above manner as the notes themselves point to this interpretation and "the theater" of walking onstage with two instruments is always quite effective....and it does sound much better." (Ellipses in Friedman's notes.)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-14 20:24
He scored for Bb and A clarinets at the same time in "Rite of Spring" (plus Eb and bass).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2012-01-14 22:39
Just cause it's physically possible to play something with one key instrument, doesn't mean you can't make it a little easier if possible, and it doesn't get out of hand.
I mean, why have a piccilo trumpet? Why not just ask regular trumpet players to learn to screech better? Why have different crooks for natural horn? Why have drop D tuning in a guitar? Why not keep guitars in "drop d" and have them restructure the chords for every song based on that? Why have a five string or six string bass? Why have two bass drum pedals for double bass? We should just expect everyone to learn the technique to play flawless double bass with one pedal. Why have a trigger on a trombone?
There's a lot of little "tricks" and "cheats" in this world for music. And many more in life. What matters is RESULTS. We're more likely to have an easier time and be able to work up and perform a piece that's in the key of G (on an A clarinet) than in the key of F# on a Bb clarinet. And it's about putting forth the best performance possible. If there's a way to make it easier for you and still achieve the desired results for the audience (sounds good), go for it.
Heck, I have no problem if you want to play with the mouthpiece upside-down, on a plateau "left-hand" (mirrored) albert system clarinet in the key of B. If you sound good, you sound good.
Now why doesn't everyone OWN all the clarinets? Cost, efficiency (is it REALLY worth toting around a Bb, A, and C to each gig if transposing a C part on a Bb clarinet is easy enough to still produce a good performance worth it?). And yes, there HAVE been people that get a full-boehm Bb clarinet and more often than not just transpose the parts.
But I can't. So I'll take that A clarinet.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Buster
Date: 2012-01-15 03:06
Quote:
...(is it REALLY worth toting around a Bb, A, and C to each gig if transposing a C part on a Bb clarinet is easy enough to still produce a good performance worth it?.)
Sort of makes me wonder why I bother getting a C clarinet for Schubert 9?
It is a lot easier to play the entire symphony on A clarinet, rather than having to pick it up cold for the 2nd movement. Matching the oboe's (suspected) sharp concert E with the initial clarinet entrance can be intriguing... depending on the temperature of the hall.
Brahm's 4th is a heck of a lot easier solely on A clarinet. (the 3rd mvmt. alone is for C; but that initial entrance is a loud tutti- so there is room to be a bit out of tune. ?)
Truth is, nobody can state that it is "right", "wrong", nor "better", to use a differing clarinet than notated in the score; but actually attempting what is written can be illuminating. Rossini's and Verdi's opera abundantly use C clarinet. The character that can be produced may just be enlightening. Of course, I cannot describe it; one has to try it and see. Then perhaps it could be possible to emulate that character on a Bb or A clarinet; or not. This is where educated choice enters in, not one that is flippantly deemed OK.
And perhaps some composers should be given a bit of credit for knowing what they write at times......
(For full-disclosure, I must admit I have never had access to a full-Boehm Bb for 'La Boheme' (has a solo with a low Eb), nor for the Berio 'Sequenza'. Conversely, I have met a scarce few bassoonists with a proper extension for low A.)
-Jason
Post Edited (2012-01-15 03:14)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
