 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2011-12-31 15:55
So in January last year (2011, It's 2012 here in Singapore!) I was 14, and I got my first clarinet, a Selmer Signature. I was quite excited about it so i grabbed it straight away. Puzzling thing that time was that the shop didn't allow me to try out the clarinet first, and claimed that the clarinet was 1 yr old. I paid a huge S$5000 for that. After a few months of breaking in, I got leaky pads and stuff, and i went to another shop to repair my dear Signature. The maintenance fees were over S$100! The clarinet did not come with any mouthpiece, so i went with the M30 Lyre, with Gonzalez 3.75 reeds. My clarinet just came back from maintenance yesterday, and when i tried it, the clarinet was very resistant, I could not play some scales properly, and the clarion register was quite airy with a few reeds. I just bought the Gonzalez reed around two weeks ago and followed GBK's method on breaking them in. Any suggestions/advices? [I do not have a tutor, I'm still finding for a trusty one, not a Buffet mafia (no offense to anyone!)]
And oh, my clarinet serial number is P04XXX. Any idea what year was it manufactured? I found on another thread that P08XXX was the latest model in 2008/2007. So did I kind of get cheated...? Lesson learnt. haha.
Happy New Year guys!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-12-31 18:51
Samuel -
Try a couple of cane reeds. If you have trouble with them, too, then the problem is the mouthpiece or the instrument. It's entirely possible that you got an M30 Lyre that's warped. Since you need a backup mouthpiece anyway, go to a store and try a few other Vandorens, including the 5RV and 5RV Lyre, which work well for almost everyone. If you can't afford that, try a Yamaha plastic mouthpiece, which is inexpensive and works on everything.
The early Signatures had problems with narrow pad rims, which produced tiny leaks. See http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=38637&t=38618 and http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=55758&t=55728
Small leaks create high resistance. I would take your Signature back to the shop and ask for it to be checked over. If they give you trouble, call up one of the clarinetists in the Singapore Symphony and ask him/her to give the horn a quick tryout, and then go back with an expert's opinion.
If the instrument can't be made to play, I'd at least try to return it to the seller. If you got a dud, it's not your fault.
You should also go to the Selmer representative in Singapore, Swee Lee Music. http://www.sweelee.sg/ They will certainly have a Signature in good condition for you to try and may help you get yours working right.
Ken Shaw
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-01-01 01:39
Thanks for the reply, I'll get it checked with probably the Singapore Symphony Orchestra player ( though he's hard to contact for tuition!) And I'll probably buy a few different sizes of the reeds I'm using now. For mouthpiece, I don't think it's the problem as I just bought it a few days ago and it was working fine on the first day? (I played on my school's B40 lyre and then realised the facing was too open for a signature.) And I bought my clarinet from Swee Lee Music, so I'm not sure if I can return the clarinet as it's been a year already, and I bought the clarinet through a school's clarinet tutor. I must say the shop lack many things such as selmer mouthpieces and certain reeds.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-01-01 03:13
There is no such thing as a mouthpiece 'facing' made for a specific clarinet. The facing is YOUR match, not the clarinet. So, use what is most comfortable with your new clarinet - DO NOT SWITCH UP EVERYTHING AT ONCE !!!!!
Testing for leaks is easy with a suction test (place fingers over respective holes of one joint; plug up other end with the other palm and suck on the end of that joint). The air should hold for awhile - ideally, until you unstop the other end or let go of a tone hole.
Settle in with a mouthpiece and use that one until you are fully knowledgeable about the workings of your clarinet.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-01-01 03:32
Paul,
Okay I shall do a leak test on the upper and lower joints and will update about it soon. Anyway one more question, (anybody can choose to ignore it!) the barrel, the top and lower joint together, and then the bell of the clarinet has different tones to their darkness, as in the barrel being the lightest black, then the joints being abit darker, then the bell being the darkest. Is this caused by different wood used? Or just something I should not care about? Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-01 05:00
All clarinets are made from different billets of wood from different trees of differing ages from different countries, sources, saw mills and suppliers, so the colour, grain pattern and density of wood between joints can be massively variable in one instrument.
Some makers will disguise this by staining or lacquering the joints to make them look uniform, but the truth is no clarinet is ever made entirely from the same log.
So you have nothing at all to worry about there.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-01-01 07:59
A selmer signature is your first clarinet? You should consider yourself very lucky. They're some of the best clarinets around and you are playing on one as a mere beginner.
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-01-01 08:12
Yes I know. But take the best clarinet possible so that I can practice on a reliable source and know what sound I am going for!
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-01-01 16:10
Okay after checking for leaks, I realised there is a leak on the middle B pad, (the lowest one). And that pad was the one I sent for adjustment last week. Is it possible for it to leak again that fast? Or should I try key oiling the screw? Before sending it back again?
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Author: Barbara
Date: 2012-01-01 17:09
Was your clarinet oiled by the way, when it was in for maintenance? Just from personal experience (limited) and from what my instructor says, the oiling makes them resistant for a while. My daughter and I have to use much more force to blow when our Ledoux comes back from being oiled. I can't offer any more advice than that, as I am just getting back into playing, so don't have much experience. Have fun!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-01-01 20:20
Samuel -
You just had the clarinet worked on. It's the repair shop's job to get it absolutely airtight. They didn't do that, and you should take it back to them to finish the work that you paid for.
Point out the leak and ask them politely to fix it. Don't make accusations or call them incompetent. While you're there, tell them that the resistance is high and ask them to check the horn over to find out what's causing that.
Ken Shaw
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-02 04:14
I guess by "middle B pad" you mean the top pad on the lower joint? Does it leak when the clarinet is assembled or also when it's not? How did you find it was leaking? It could be the bridge mechanism that is out of adjustment, one of the most common problems. If it's only leaking when assembled, maybe the repairer fixed everything but forgot to check the clarinet assembled...
You can also try assembling the clarinet so the two sides of the bridge mechanism don't contact each other at all. It will be uncomfortable to play (weird angle between hands) but if it's not resistant that way then you probably found the problem.
Post Edited (2012-01-02 04:18)
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-01-02 15:06
Barbara,
I oil my clarinet myself, and the repair guy would oil it only if i ask him to. Thanks anyway!
Ken,
I'll ask the shop to repair it very soon. It was closed just now as the day after the New Year is a public holiday in Singapore. Thanks for your advice! Will ask them to check the whole horn too.
clarnibass,
I think it leaks when it's assembled and when it's not, as i found the clarinet very resistant and quite airy when I play on it (my embouchure was sealed too, didn't feel any air escaping from my mouth.) I found out the leak when it is not assembled, and i don't really know where the bridge mechanism is (Is it the part where the upper joint and lower joint meet, and the keys are in line with each other?). I've never tried the part where you suggested not alining them at all (it must be very weird for my fingers!)
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-01-05 13:01
Went to the store today and got it repaired/adjusted again. Now my sound is back! Not airy and very sweet low notes! I miss playing my Middle B natural. Haha thanks guys! Glad to have some suggestions avaliable~
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2012-01-05 19:23
I own and play the same clarinet, I bought it 3 1/2 years ago for $3000 in the states, sorry. The number is PO 4751. If you still have a problem ask a friend that is a decent player to play it if you can't go to a professional and see if they have the same problems as you do. It should not leak if the tech does a real good job. Try to find one that has a suction machine, many techs have them in the USA. That can determine if there's a leak someplace for sure. Mine didn't come with a mouthpiece either, stock mouthpieces usually are not very good in general though Selmer does make some decent ones. I use a Selmer on bass clarinet but not on clarinet.
Take care when you put it together and take it apart so you don't bend any of the rods or keys, especially the large ones in the lower joint. ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2012-01-06 05:01
Magnehelic machines gently pressurise the bore instead of creating a vacuum, so readings nearest 0 and less than 1 on the gauge are showing the joint being tested is hardly leaking - any readings near 1 show there's a minor leak and any readings over 2 show the joint is leaking like a sieve.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-01-06 05:26
>> Magnehelic machines gently pressurise the bore instead of creating a vacuum <<
Yes, I assume that is what Ed was talking about eventhough he said suction machine. I disagree that it's necessarily better to find a repairer with one. One of the best repairers I know doesn't have one and he could easily get one if he wanted to. I have one BTW.
>> so readings nearest 0 and less than 1 on the gauge are showing the joint being tested is hardly leaking - any readings near 1 show there's a minor leak and any readings over 2 show the joint is leaking like a sieve. <<
Not exactly. It completely depends on how each person set up their magnehelic. The same leak on the same instrument will show differently on different magnehelic machines if they are set up differently, which is likely.
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Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-01-06 10:23
Well I check whether my clarinet is leaking by blowing into the joint while all keys are closed (any hole) and then if there's a possible leak i test it again for tens of times to make sure in case my hand is the one leaking!
Now the problem's solved, and oh dear, I believed my clarinet was a year old until Eddie said about his :(
Also, any tips on getting high notes? I read several threads here about this, and they all suggested more pressure and air speed, using the tongue position as if I am pronouncing 'E', and much more. Now I feel my altissimo notes are still a little flat, especially when slurred up, or in a piece of music. And because of that, I tend to start biting abit, which causes a sore lip and another 2 days of unconditional rest or so. Many here have suggested the double lip embochure, but when I try it, my sound is very 'vibrato'? Something like my upper lip will move when I start playing. Did I not tighten my embochure enough?
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