 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-11-26 20:25
I'll start by admitting my age...74; however, I am not ready for the retirement home yet though, as just today I beat a much younger, very athletic, player in a fast-paced racquetball match (a few years ago I was 2nd in the state in my age group a couple of different years).
I I have read most of the archival posts relating to playing on harder reeds, and I'm certainly not macho about it, but I would like to play more than a 2-1/2 reed if nothing more than achieving a better sound.
I started playing the clarinet 3-1/2 years ago. I play a Buffet R13 with a Grabner K14 mp.
My complaint/problem: I can't seem to get past the #2-1/2 to #3 reeds (depending on the brand). For example, I can play a number 3 Legere Signature fairly well, but when I try a Vandoren V12, I have to play a 2-1/2. Also same as the V12 with a Rico Grand Concert (Select or Evolution).
I practice 1-1/2 to 2 hours per day, but I don't always do long tones.
With the above info, what would you all advise
CarlT
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-11-26 22:05
If you can get used to the no.3 reed within one year, then you'll be playing on no.12 reeds by the time you're 93!
:-)
Seriously, there are many other factors than reed strength which could be affecting your endeavors:
1. Compatibility- don't be mislead into believing that using a stronger reed makes you sound better. The mouthpiece facing and reed strength need to be compatible. A more open and short facing requires a softer reed. A more closed an long facing requires a harder reed. I play on V12 no.3 reeds. I tried a colleague's set-up who plays on no.5 reeds. It didn't feel at all hard for me, because he uses a very closed-facing mouthpiece. Grabner recommends a V12 no.3-3.5 for the K14, so you're actually doing OK using a 2.5, especially if you've only been playing for 3 1/2 years. It could also e that your particular K14 is slightly more open than the norm.
2. Mouthpiece- it could be that the particular mouthpiece that you are playing on is either not a good one, or is just not suited to you. Have you tried other Grabner K14 mouthpieces to compare? Have you tried other brands of mouthpiece?
3. Are your reeds balanced? Many, if not most, reeds that come out of the box needs to be balanced. An unbalanced reed feels too strong. I recommend something like Ridenour's ATG system to learn the fundamentals of reed adjustment.
4. You said that you want to use stronger reeds in order to achieve a better sound. There may be many other factors which you could improve to achieve a better sound. The way you blow, your facial muscles, the cavity inside your mouth, your posture, the amount of mouthpiece in your mouth-- all of these things can have a big effect on your sound.
I don't know if you are having lessons, but seeking out the advice of a top professional could save you years of searching for the right solution. Of course it's almost impossible to diagnose over the internet!
I wish you all the best!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2011-11-26 22:34
IMHO if you haven't measured your mouthpiece dimensions then you don't really know what you're playing on. As previously pointed out , a higher number reed doesn't necessarily enable a better sound(whatever "better" means to you).
It's possible your present mp is too "open" for a stiffer reed. And so on.
Bob Draznik
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-11-26 23:55
Thanks, fellows.
@ Jack: The biggest issue is that I have to really struggle to have enough air pressure to play most no. 3 reeds (the Legere Signature being an exception). I believe that, even after more than 3 years, I still have a relatively weak embouchure.
@ Liquorice:
1) I have 2 other mouthpieces besides the K14. They are an M13 Lyre and a 5RV Lyre. I have the exact same problem with them as the Grabner, so I really don't believe it's the mp.
2) Yes, I tried several before buying the K14. As an aside, the K14 is not THAT much better than the 2 mentioned above (for me anyway). The other 2 are "almost-but-not-quite" as good IMO as the Grabner.
3) I have the ATG system; however, I have screwed up more reeds on it than I have improved...my fault I'm sure, as others have had more success than I with it. I am thinking of getting a reed knife and learning the proper way of using it, so maybe that'll help.
4) I agree that there are other factors besides reed size that would aid in improving my sound, and my sound has actually improved a lot in the past several months. I do have a teacher, and she has helped me with that part of the equation. My teacher has told me it's better to stay with a lower numbered reed than to try to...how did she put it...blow like a whale in an attempt to play well.
I guess I'm too impatient, but I really thought after all this time I should be playing at least a 3-1/2. I've made a mental note to play long tones more so that my embouchure can improve. Maybe that will help also.
@ BobD: Yes. Awhile back, prior to buying the K14, I tried a Vandy B40 (a much more open mp than any others I have), and right away I saw that even a 2-1/2 was a bit, but not much, too strong for me on it. As I said above, I think one of the best things I can do is to improve my embouchure strength.
I am also doing an exercise that Ken Shaw suggested...getting a soda straw and when watching TV or something, repeatedly compressing it with my lips in order to strengthen them.
As usual, thanks for all you inputs.
CarlT
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Author: Jack Stewart
Date: 2011-11-27 00:20
Honestly the best test may be just to play on them for awhile - eventually your embouchure/air will adapt - or it won't. You could ease into it, starting with playing the harder reed for only part of your practice session and gradually increasing the time. It's also possible that you may need a strength somewhere in between these two so buying the harder reed and adjusting it down (sand paper, reed knife) may be the way to go. Personally I find that most reeds which end up being my favorite are those which don't play perfectly right out of the box - they are usually a little on the hard side and are fantastic once theyve broken in some. Also, if it seems that your sound on the harder reed is more airy, you may want to record yourself playing both strengths - oftentimes our tone comes across to the audience much differently than we perceive it to be.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-11-27 05:39
May I suggest you just get some silicon carbide abrasive paper #350 or so and use it to sand the reeds as needed. Reed knives are for oboe players.
A larger number reed does not necessarily sound better or worse. I prefer #3 Van Doren V12 reeds and usually sand them down to reduce the raised grain from wetting and to get them to vibrate freely. There are usually 10 fine reeds in a box by doing this. While I'm older than you, I've studied and played the clarinet much longer, still playing first desk in a quite good concert band.
My check for reed softness is to play C an octave above high C. Air is what makes the clarinet work and one must provide reasonably high pressure air to the reed but no pinching of the reed. Long tones are good practice.
I know a very fine clarinet player that uses #2 1/2 Van Doren reeds all the time.
Good Luck!
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-11-27 06:45
Carl, my experience with my own students is that, when I have them try a stiffer reed, if it's really an improvement they adjust to it within a few minutes and the result is better than with the softer reed strength. If after several minutes the sound is still fuzzy and airy or just lacks resonance and sounds unresponsive, it's probably too stiff for the mouthpiece.
As a general rule, decisions about changes in equipment - reeds, mouthpieces, clarinets, or ligatures - depend on what problem you're trying to solve. The question that must always be asked about any change is, "why?" Once you've answered that question, changes can be accepted or rejected depending on whether or not they solve or approach solving the problem.
Whenever you change reed strengths your first few notes on the new reed are often sub-ideal. Your ear will guide you toward any adjustments that are needed to play on the new strength. If you haven't made those adjustments comfortably after a few minutes, the change in strength may not be the right solution to the problem you're trying to solve.
Karl
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Author: oca
Date: 2011-11-27 08:44
What worked for me was getting rid of my softer reeds so I had to use harder reeds.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-11-27 12:53
Carl,
I returned to the clarinet 3 years ago after a 48 year gap. When I first played I was able to play comfortably on a Vandoren 4, and I assumed that this would be the case at age 72. Not so, and I'm now playing very comfortably on a Vandoren 2.5 or a Legere 2.25, with a better sound than I ever had when I played previously. To some extent, I think the effects of age and the passing of years probably has something to do with this. My embouchure is probably not as strong as it was then, but I just don't find it necessary to play a harder reed to get the sound I want. I've experimented quite extensively with mouthpieces, and I'm getting good results with a Vandoren B44 on a B & H Emperor. A harder reed isn't necessarily the passport to a better sound.
Tony F.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2011-11-27 17:05
Thanks to all for your good advice and encouragement.
In addition to just being able to get a better sound, I also try to incorporate a few minutes each practice session to the altissimo register (up to and including high G). Typically I can't play high G with a no. 2-1/2 all that well, although I did find very recently that I can get high G with a 2.5 Grand Concert Evolution reed fairly well, so that is encouraging to me.
I've played mostly the Legere Signatures for the past year; however, even I can tell that a "good" cane reed (IMHO, i.e.) does sound better. I am going to attempt to learn the art of reed adjusting because the time spent doing so should prove to be of great benefit to me.
I realize that a good player can make a 2.5 reed sound very good, so maybe I just need to strengthen my embochure somewhat more.
Much obliged to you.
CarlT
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-11-27 17:09
I would give up trying for a harder reed unless it will make an improvement in your playing.
I think that if you can fluently use the altissimo register that your set up is ok. If you want to use a tongue depressor for a reed, you could get a really long-layed mouthpiece with a teeny tip opening.
Bob Phillips
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-11-28 04:47
Carl, good for you!
I find that I can do some great reed balancing with reed rush. It's fairly easy to use, and it's almost goof-proof. Here's a good video that explains how to do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCA0kBxT3q4
I do it almost the same way as Gingras does, but I take my reed off when making the adjustments.
I've written about this before, but I think it's worth writing again. Back in the 70s, I read an article in the Instrumentalist magazine about Herb Blayman, then the principal clarinet player in the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra. Blayman said that he made the move to softer reeds as he got older, and he added that many other players did the same thing. At the time, I was a young hotshot playing on very hard reeds, and couldn't understand how anyone could play on anything softer than a 3 1/2. Now that I'm older and wiser and playing on softer reeds myself, I understand!
If you feel, after breaking in your cane reeds, that they are just a bit too soft, invest in a reed clipper. Cutting only the smallest possible portion from the tip might make a 2 1/2 the perfect reed for you.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-11-28 07:02
CarlT wrote:
> ...I am going to attempt to learn the art of
> reed adjusting because the time spent doing so should prove to
> be of great benefit to me.
>
Having spent the last several decades learning how to balance reeds by traditional methods - feeling with the thumbnail, blowing against each side of the reed, etc., I strongly recommend Ben Armata's PerfectaReed, which is basically a dial gauge setup that makes measuring the thickness of selected points on a reed as simple as it can get. It isn't absolutely perfect and is a little pricey ($200 online), but it's the best tool I've found to locate *where* the reed thickness is not balanced. It's sometimes surprising where wood needs to be scraped away - not always in an area that seems obvious from flexing with a thumbnail or going at it with a sanding block based on play-testing alone.
Karl
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