 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: srattle
Date: 2011-11-18 15:05
Principle is Laslo Kuti, current principle of the Munich Philharmonic (I believe)
second clarinet, I studied with him in Berlin, Dario Mariño Varela, and he is in the Academy, wonderful clarinetist
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-11-18 15:35
What kind of clarinet is Laslo Kuti playing on? It isn't a Wurlitzer, and doesn't look like a normal Boehm.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-11-18 15:43
OK, looks like he plays on Gerold clarinets:
http://www.gerold-klarinetten.at/index.html
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-11-18 21:37
Love Berlins digital concert hall - what a great way to promote an Orchestra, and make it availiable to everyone.
With the Apple TV it's awesome through the TV/Stereo (I've subscribed to it since last year).
They sounded great.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-19 05:02
Wondrful sounds. Great clarinetists. I sure like the acoustics of this hall. You can hear .everything.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-19 14:16
Liquorice,
Thanks SOOOOO much for the link to GEROLD. This is great stuff. Almost makes you think every German clarinet player plays on Gerold (and can afford them!!!)................. do they????
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-11-19 17:57
I've mainly come across Austrians who play them. One excellent player told me that he prefers them over Wurlitzer because they have more flexible sound and don't have the tuning issues. Pity they don't make a Boehm model! I didn't see the price on the website?
Post Edited (2011-11-19 17:57)
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-11-19 18:15
Liquorice - The prices of Gerold's two models are:
Modesto Bb - €3900
Modesto A - €4200
Amadeus Bb and A - €7200 (each)
Options (eg low F corrector key, low E resonator key) are extra.
Case/mpc/swab are all extra (€390/€152/€12)
Simon
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-20 03:53
Liquorice,
You have to go to 'YOUR CLARINET' on the website - Prices as quoted by Simon Aldrich.
But now, when you say 'tuning issues on the Wurlitzer,' I can't even imagine a clarinet being more in tune with itself than the Oehler system Wurlitzers. If this is really the case.... WE ALL need to be playing Gerolds !!!!!
.................Paul Aviles
P.S. After spending MORE time on the Gerold website I found many technical innovations that were quite noteworthy. The most amazing to me was what they refer to as the 'one side distance control.' This is actually rods that have heads that are the same diameter of the outer axle of the key (it appears the 'head' protrudes through the pivot and up against the one side of the key axle so that now that side is free to expand and contract with the weather .... NO SWEDGING !!!!!!). Remarkable !!!! In addition that weird 'headed rod' incorporates two o-rings (or washers for lack of a better term) that serve two purposes. One, they prevent the rod from unscrewing (an age old problem) AND help dampen key noise.....PURE GENIUS !!!!!
Post Edited (2011-11-20 05:37)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-11-20 23:12
OK, I guess I can't throw off a comment like that without getting a response from wurlitzerclarinetsamerica
Eric, let me start off by saying that it is not my intention to put down Wurlitzer clarinets. They are fine instruments which, just like all clarinets, have certain tuning tendencies. On the Wurlitzer instruments, the worst of these are:
-Some of the right-hand 12ths (eg. A/E, B/Fsharp) are too narrow
-Some of the left-hand 12ths (eg. D/A, E/B and F/C) are too wide
I spent several months playing professionally on some Wurlitzer Reform-Boehm instruments. I tried various mouthpieces by Wurlitzer, Viotto and Zeretzke. I could negotiate the left-hand 12ths without too much problem by using a more open mouth cavity (especially the soft palate) and a more relaxed embouchure to bring the upper register notes down. The lower register left-hand notes could be brought up to pitch by lipping up, sometimes having to add keys when playing loud, or quickly pushing in a bit before a loud section in this register. The problem that always persisted was that the clarion notes from D to Fsharp were all flat. These notes are also some of the "tightest" notes on the Wurlitzer, so trying to lip them up just made them sound forced and thin. If you push in enough for these notes to be in tune, then everything else is too sharp, especially the RH lower register A and B.
I know several professional players who have been to the Wurlitzer workshop in Neustadt to work on these issues. Some improvement has sometimes been made, but generally if you play these instruments you have to accept that you're going to have to struggle with these tuning tendencies.
We struggle with tuning issues on French clarinets too, eg. unless you have a correction key, your low F is typically going to be flat. The tuning issues on the Wurlitzers are just different. Incidentally, my colleagues in the woodwind group (flute, clarinet and bassoon) couldn't hear the difference when I played Buffet or Wurlitzer. This amazed me, because the playing experience was very different for me. So in the end I went back to French clarinets because I just had to work a lot less hard to be in tune.
My friend who plays on Gerold clarinets is principal clarinetist in a German A-orchestra. He grew up playing on German system Wurlitzers, but switched to Gerold for the reasons given above.
I've played with and heard enough top European Wurlitzer players to know that they also struggle against these tuning tendencies. All wind instruments have tuning tendencies, and it always requires a lot of effort to play a wind instrument well in tune.
The claim that Wurlitzers play perfectly in tune is ludicrous, and can really only come from someone who works for Wurlitzer. Clarinets don't play in tune. Good clarinetists strive to play in tune.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-11-21 00:14
Liquorice is a legit Professional player.
I've always held the Wurlitzer's as a kind of "holy grail" for German System Clarinets as their reputation was stellar. That's the father's reputation though, I don't know if he's still around, or not.
No Clarinet plays perfectly in tune, it's the player's job to adjust, but there are certain tendencies, and idiosyncrasies that are common in any manufacturers instruments.
Having Eric and Charles to assist a player looking to buy/switch is great, as they are so different from the Boehm.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2011-11-21 00:23)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-21 00:36
My thirteen years on Wurlitzer Oehler system clarinets were most enjoyable and I did not have any pitch problems as described above. I came from, and went back to Boehm merely based on what I can only describe as a deeply engrained idea of what the final sound should be that came from my FIRST ten years on Boehm.
I may have had an exceptional set and I hope that they have gone to a good home via a reputable shop in Berlin.
ALL German and Viennese clarinets have ONE fatal flaw compared to what we are used to in the States. Their sound is just a little too 'compact.' This may not even be a flaw except for perhaps keeping up with your section peers if they do not play Wurlitzers too.
I hear the Chicago Symphony section uses (or at least had used) Oehler system Wurlitzers as a full section work in certain Germanic works for 'authenticity of sound.' In that sort of context or solo or ensemble work of a classical nature NOTHING will EVER sound as good.........period.
Oh, and I should note that no other clarinet will match with flutes and oboes as smoothly.
.......................Paul Aviles
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-11-21 11:01
Robert,
Thank you for stepping out from behind the curtain.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and more than that, entitled to a certain amount of repect for that opinion due to your professional accomplishments.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2012-03-23 16:13)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2011-11-21 13:24
An addendum of sorts:
I have too much respect for Robert's work to prolong this sort of debate here. Whatever others might say, I too have done the sort of work he does professionally, and it is incredibly demanding. His concerns and experiences are to be sincerely respected, regardless of disagreements in our choices and critiques of instruments.
Robert, please do email me if you're annoyed with this line of debate--or for any other reason. There are perhaps circumstances you might not know of which would explain why I have dealt with your passing comment in the manner I have.
You have my word that my respect for your work and privacy in whatever discussion we might have is sincere.
Eric
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2011-11-21 15:01
> If anyone invents the clarinet that is perfectly in tune and does not need any player "adjustments" while performing, please let me know ASAP. I am sure it will sell out.
> The link to the Berlin Phil Concert Hall was wonderful. I will be sitting here for the next 48 hours enjoying a great orchestra playing right in my studio the music I enjoy most. And for free. I think I will most likely start a subscription as the audio and video are of very high quality.
> Between the MET Opera in theaters, and Berlin Phil coming right to my home, perhaps the world will only need a handful of orchestras....ouch.
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Author: clarinete09
Date: 2011-11-21 15:14
>
> > The link to the Berlin Phil Concert Hall was wonderful. I
> will be sitting here for the next 48 hours enjoying a great
> orchestra playing right in my studio the music I enjoy most.
> And for free. I think I will most likely start a subscription
> as the audio and video are of very high quality.
>
Wait a second, you said for free? do they currently any free access pass? I was under the impression you have to subscribe and pay to get full access to the Berlin Phil Concert Hall! Please let me know if I there is any promotion going on!Dileep Gangolli wrote:
David
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-21 16:29
In all the debating you may have missed the 'S.H.J.' post above detailing how to avail yourself of the free pass. I only have 970kb/s so it is a fun yet frustrating offer (I have frequent breaks waiting for info to 'spool.')
Offer ended this Sunday......sorry.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-11-21 17:32
Eric- thanks for your kind replies. I don't need to know the details of the circumstances that lead to you dealing with my passing comment in the way you did. In retrospect, I don't think my passing comment was very fair and I will refrain from such comments in future. An intelligent discussion of particulars is much more useful.
Your offer to help is kind, and I will certainly take you up on it if I ever have another bash at playing Wurlitzers!
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2011-11-22 01:25
Hi David,
Sorry for the delay. Just checked the bboard.
I got a 48 hour free pass based on what someone had mentioned earlier on the thread but the offer may have expired by the time you see this.
Punch in the follow code at the prompt:
FABTHANK7X
Dileep
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-11-22 23:54
Dear Robert Pickup,
I hope you would be able to correspond with me off line. I am looking for more detailed first hand information about the Gerold Clarinets, mouthpieces used, custom mouthpiece makers available, reeds.
thank you in advance for any information you can offer.
.....................Paul Aviles (sarjientfinally@yahoo.com)
Post Edited (2011-11-23 02:55)
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The Clarinet Pages
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