 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-11-11 19:22
Stephen Charette (Mark's son) has a live recording of Weber's Grand Duo Concertante at http://www.stephencharette.com/audio.html, and it's a must-listen performance.
As with any live version, there are a few tiny glitches, but he plays with a fine, ringing tone, clean technique and great elan.
By the way, movements 2 and 3 are reversed. When 1 ends, click on track 3.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2011-11-12 01:46
I'll let Steve know. He'll appreciate the comments. I think this was one of his recitals maybe 8 years back when he was studying with Frank Cohen.
He doesn't play clarinet as much as he used to since he's conducting now, but I see he has a chamber music concert coming up. I'll see what he's working up.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-11-12 17:45
BRAVO,BRAVO for the pianist, too!
I'm torn between ranking the difficulties of playing the Grand Duo, but I think finding a compatible pianist is HARDER than learning to play the the clarinet part!
Bob Phillips
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2011-11-12 22:36
I find this pretty boring tone and playing.
I much prefer this piece played by Walter Boeykens.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2011-11-12 23:12
We're still waiting for your exemplar. Steve was 20 or 21 when he did this, and putting something online says you're willing to take risks. Are you?
I prefer Walter Boeykens to Steve, too. At least comparing Steve at 21 to the Boeykens of today.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-12 23:51
I'm not one to simply click a "like" button to see my name here, so I beg forgiveness for the irony of my posting.
Yet,
Well put Mr. Charette.
-Some things need to be said. I would certainly hope at 33 my playing is much more refined, particularly outside the inane realm of "sound" or "technique", than at age 20. Peoples ears also mature concurrently with clarinetistic abilities.
If one wishes to degrade anothers' playing, be they a professional or not, one should be prepared to back any assertions up. And me thinks citing the recording of one other than oneself is not sufficient.
Moreover, I could care less what you prefer.
-Jason
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2011-11-13 12:54
Mark Charette
I still prefer Walter Boeykens over Karl Leister,Stanley Drucker,Ricardo Morales and other well known players.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2011-11-13 13:22
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> I still prefer Walter Boeykens over Karl Leister,Stanley
> Drucker,Ricardo Morales and other well known players.
So what? Without context I don't care what you like or don't like. We've had this discussion before; your posts have yet to enlighten.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-11-13 15:43
It's a really nice piece. Certainly much better than I was at 20, and probably still much better than I am today. Very nice recital!
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-11-13 16:35
I think Steve's playing is excellent -- PROPER clarinet playing, I'd say.
I can't find the Boeykens recording -- there's a coupling of the Weber concertino, concertos I and II and the Gran duo; Boeykens plays the stuff with orchestra, but the performance of the Gran duo seems to be by Paul Meyer and Francois-Rene Duchable. And it's primarily the piano playing that makes the difference between Steve's live concert and that CD, if it's the one you're talking about.
Duchable is a monster pianist, and a bit of a madman: he's the one that said he was going to burn his pianos and tails in protest at the elitism of the music scene:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3044844.stm
...so it's not surprising that he and Meyer turn in an electrifying performance.
Actually, in our repertoire, that's often the problem; it makes little sense to talk about a CLARINET PLAYER'S performance of the Brahms sonatas when the pianist is so important and such a controlling influence. And that's true of this Weber piece too, with its notorious piano part.
Interestingly, Weber's piano, now owned by Christopher Hogwood, would have made the piano part more tractable; its action is much lighter, and the keys narrower.
I think the recording of Steve's performance was badly balanced, too; you hear him too strongly at moments when you want to hear the piano line, which seems much more distant. But he plays with real understanding, and I imagine he's a fine conductor.
Incidentally, bad and thoughtless balance is a cardinal fault of the Kell recording mentioned above -- and that was a properly engineered disc, not a performance. (Listen to his low E in the first movement, and then how he plays the clarinet accompaniment to the piano tune that immediately follows, for example.)
But then, as I've said here before, Kell tended to be more concerned with his own ego than with the integrity of the music as a whole, so the fact that the piano part comes across as an also-ran to his clarinet wouldn't have worried him overmuch.
Any pointers to an actual recording by Boeykens gratefully received.
Tony
Post Edited (2011-11-13 17:32)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2011-11-13 16:38
Le9669 wrote:
> Let's suggest things nicely here.
Worthwhile and well thought out suggestions and criticisms I think are always welcome here; the opposite are a waste of reader's time. Saying "this is boring, I like someone else" is a perfect example of the latter.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-13 21:26
Again, well said Mr. Charette. I could care less what is "liked" unless support is given.
...and I apologize in advance if I seem to be attacking Ken, or most others, with my following remarks. I assure you that is not my intent.)
-Quite importantly, it should be noted that neither Mark, nor his son, posted the link to this recording. Mark's son was not fishing, nor looking for compliments. Thus, statements speaking of "likes or dislikes" should perhaps be tempered.
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***If you will abide me straying off the initial topic of this thread, what Tony speaks of, the mentioning of what comprises a skilled "accompanist" or "piano 'player", brings to life a far more enlightening and important notion. (Thankfully we can have a relevant discussion regardless of the stupidity of comments which may lie earlier in any given thread. .....Even if the ultimate discussion takes a side-step from the genesis of said thread.)
Listen to the famous Wright/Valente/Serkin recording of 'Shepard on the Rock'. Regardless of your preference regarding Wright/Valente's interpretation, perhaps listen to Serkin- just once. What he allows them to do is quite striking considering the piano "part" is not considered challenging in the least- by most.
The fact that what he accomplishes even needs to be pointed out speaks volumes to the skill and knowledge with which he approaches the composition. (and yes, it had to be pointed out to my much less educated ears some years back.)
It's much like the best compliment you can pay a good jazz "drummer" is "Oh, I didn't even realize you were playing."
The example of 'Shepard.....' is an extreme one.... the piano part is, perhaps, not meant to be heard but "felt." The Weber 'Grand Duo', the Brahms Sonati, et al... fall at the other end of the spectrum. The pianists' role is much more at the front- or on "equal footing" with the clarinetists'.
An extremely skilled accompanist/collaborator is no less important than the "soloistic" clarinet part- whatever the composition may be. If you have the fortune to work with a skilled accompanist, consider yourself extremely fortunate as they are not easily found.
Again, I apologize for steering yet another discussion off the tracks.
-Jason
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-13 21:32
also, I did no cursory search to see if what I spoke of lies elsewhere in the dark, dank, spider-web filled corners of the archives. If I am inadvertently plagiarizing or re-hashing earlier discussions:
I beg your forgiveness and strongly suggest you don't read what you have just read.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-11-14 00:16
Quote:
I think the recording of Steve's performance was badly balanced, too; you hear him too strongly at moments when you want to hear the piano line, which seems much more distant. I felt that too, but I don't know how it was recorded, and if they tried to take that into account. Maybe it sounded much more balanced for the live audience than where the recording equipment was set, or maybe the recording equipment just picked up clarinet more than the piano.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2011-11-14 00:19
Just a small CIM recital space (not a good one if I remember right - he got bumped from the good space) with a suspended mic. Most certainly not an engineered recording, just a standard college recital recording.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-14 02:12
Very good! Lots of technique and a sweet sound. Phrasing is also excellent. I also enjoyed the emotions you were able to feel and translate the music into a well exacuted heart felt piece.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-11-14 02:38)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2011-11-14 02:35
Bob Bernardo wrote:
> Any idea what his setup is?
I don't know Steve's precise setup today other than he uses the same set of Festivals he used then, but at that time I believe it was stock Buffet barrels, an old "hunk 'o brass" ligature, and a Richard Hawkins mouthpiece. Richard was his teacher at Interlochen Arts Academy for 3 years and the mouthpiece was pretty well tailored to Steve's playing. He may have borrowed a barrel from Frank - I don't remember for sure.
Steve's never been one who is obsessed with equipment. Of course, nowadays he doesn't need to spend so much ... batons just don't cost all that much, though he did teach me a bit about the differences between batons!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2011-11-15 15:49
He and Ms. Hill balance the good humor of this piece with the virtuosity. It's easy to go too far either way. An excessively virtuosic approach ("Hmm, I wonder ... how fast can we play it?") is the more dangerous, I think, because it can end up pretentious, or show-offy and superficial -- or just blithering, if it cascades into torrents of wrong notes in the piano and accidental altissimo in the clarinet. The opposite approach of flippancy can easily turn this piece into slapstick. Interpreting the humor as goofiness might be a brilliant approach as a silent film score for a Harold Lloyd comedy (the length is about right for one of his two-reelers) but in a concert hall ... not so much. Charette and Hill sound as if they've thought this stuff through. I enjoy this performance!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2011-11-15 22:09
Mark wrote:
"Iceland clarinet wrote:
> I still prefer Walter Boeykens over Karl Leister,Stanley
> Drucker,Ricardo Morales and other well known players.
So what? Without context I don't care what you like or don't like. We've had this discussion before; your posts have yet to enlighten."
I say this even if it means that you throve me out:
I don't care that you don't care what I think I will still express my opinion as a free person.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2011-11-15 22:17
> I still prefer Walter Boeykens over Karl Leister,Stanley Drucker,Ricardo Morales and other well known players.>
Tell us where you hear Boeykens play this piece, for a start.
Tony
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2011-11-15 22:55
Iceland clarinet wrote:
>
> I don't care that you don't care what I think I will still
> express my opinion as a free person.
I'm glad that you express your opinion. It helps separate the wheat from the chaff.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2011-11-15 23:10
I find Iceland clarinet's opinions pretty boring and stupid. I'm glad that I can express my opinion here though.
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Author: Warschewsky
Date: 2011-11-16 12:06
Check out Hakan Rosengren's recording with pianist Anders Kilstrom; I found it on amazon.co.uk I think you will all enjoy that one. I have Boeykens recording from many years back; it is an all Weber cd on Harmonia Mundi (if my memory serves me right).
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Author: brycon
Date: 2011-11-16 12:52
I find Iceland's comments pretty boring. I would much prefer to read posts by Walter Boeykens.
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Author: vin
Date: 2011-11-16 15:49
I much prefer reading Richard Dawkins to reading Iceland.
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-16 19:46
I wish not to do Iceland's homework for him, but we will get nowhere if He doesn't;
The original release seems to be: Talent, DPM 291009 © 1987
There is a re-issue: Harmonia Mundi Fr., B00004TVGU
and : Harmonia Mundi Fr., B00000079A
also found in a box set: Classic Talent, B000002K4T
-Robert Groslot is the pianist.
I have not heard the recording so don't shoot the messenger.
-J
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2011-11-16 20:42
I really enjoyed this.
A stand-out recording for me is the one made by Pierre-Andre Talliard and Eduardo Torbianelli, on Harmonia Mundi, B000084SY5. Very exciting playing.
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