 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: RachelB4
Date: 2011-11-01 01:48
Hi, I've been looking around for a good knife to purchase for fixing reeds. I'll be buying a ground hollow knife, but as far as brands go.. I'm not sure what I'm doing. I'd prefer the knife to not have to be sharpened too often (I've heard Vitri knives aren't that great) but I don't want to have to pay too much.
Has anyone used or heard of anything about Rigotti Reed knives? Would this be a good buy for me?
Also if you have any other suggestions reguarding any other knives to buy, that would be great. Thanks!
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-01 03:32
you get what you pay for.
Higher grade carbon steel/stainless will hold an edge better but costs more. They will last longer though so it could be looked at as an investment.
I won't make a recommendation on brand, only tell you what I have:
-a Landwell double-hollow ground -Hard
-an RDG Swiss double hollow with a curved tip
They are both pricier, but will last a long time. They are trickier to sharpen at first due to the grade of metal if you don't know what you are doing, but are simple to re-hone.
***Whatever you go with, do have someone sharpen it properly from the get go. It will (or should) come sharp, but without a burr. You then simply turn a burr over to one side per right or left handed use. Have an oboist show you if you are unsure- they have a lot of practice.
It is quite easy to maintain a burr on a knife than it is to have to grind away an improperly sharpened one. (I still have nightmares from fixing my friend's beveled knife he tried to sharpen. I fixed it, but sat for 3 hours grinding away on a diamond stone.)
Also, you if you are not familiar with using a reed-knife, having one that is properly sharpened will help greatly with your learning curve.
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2011-11-01 04:23
Surgical scalpel blades. Relatively cheap. Disposable. Sharper than any reed knife. You can probably get them through a pharmacy, or ask your doctor's office where they buy theirs.
Alan
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: nosqueaks
Date: 2011-11-01 05:56
Have, you considered reed rush? I have been using it for years, and I never worry about a sharp knife. If you are working on a reed, it is very easy to take too much off with a sharp knife. I never soak the rush or tear it off- just use it whole. I have recently been cutting my own and drying it. When trimming, you can cut the ends at an angle and create a pointed end which allows fine work on the tip if the reed-
Formerly I played oboe and made reeds for 5 years, I have good knives; reed rush has worked for me on my clarinet reeds for the last 20 years or so.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-11-01 07:20
I have used sand paper, the ATG reed finishing system, reed knives, the Reed Wizard, and the ReedGeek. I am having tremendous success with the ReedGeek. It doubles as a knife as well as edges for flattening the back of the reed. It really does make a difference. Costs 30 bucks plus shipping. I think it's pretty valuable.
Post Edited (2011-11-01 07:20)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2011-11-01 08:14
Vitry knives have served me well for at least three decades as an oboe player. The hollow ground ones are very easy to sharpen and the blade can take a curl easily, staying sharp for a long time for making many reeds.
As a clarinet player, I never use a reed knife, as I buy great V12 reeds that need little work except for slight sanding with #400 silicon carbide abrasive paper. A single edge razor blade is handy however for scraping crud(dirt and skin cells) from the reed after it has been used some. I play every day and have for years.
Good luck on your quest!
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Author: RachelB4
Date: 2011-11-01 16:11
Thanks for your input everyone! I've used reed rush and sandpaper for a while.. but I just can't do everything with it. I need a little more precision and a cleaner way of balancing, de-warping, and opening up the reed.. Reed rush really though is a great substitute and alternative but there are some things you just can't do with them.
Recently I've cheated and used some Rico Grand concert select reeds, kind of on the ehh quality side but they work straight out of the box and some really sing great. They need minimal work but it's always a shock to go back to vandoren. All my Vandoren v12 4s need heavy work so I think it's time for a knife.
This may be a stupid question.. but what is a burr?
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-11-01 17:54
Wenger (Swiss Army) make an excellent reed double knife:
http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Swiss-Star+Oboe+Knife
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Author: nosqueaks
Date: 2011-11-01 18:43
Rachel, have you tried V12 3.5+ reeds?
If you have to do a LOT of work (removing cane) to make a V12 4 work, maybe going down to the next 1/4 strength is worth a try?
Vandoren Reps told me years ago that they purposely mix reed strengths within a box to give us a mix- for when the humidity changes-
They can grade reeds to a tenth of a strength.
A box of 4s could be anywhere from 3.6 to 4.4.
The 3.5+ strength is supposed to be closer to the top of the #3.5 range-
maybe 3.6 to 3.9?
my 2 cents-
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-11-01 19:02
I have a Landwell knife that I have used for years. It is one of the best knives I have used.
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Author: Dan Paprocki
Date: 2011-11-01 19:44
I sometimes use a ceramic paring knife. This is "extremely" sharp and is suppose to stay sharp for 80 years. I have started using the ReedGeek with success. You can also do air travel with the ReedGeek because it isn't a knive. The Reed Wizard is also very good for adjusting reeds.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-11-01 19:53
I have had some success using small scrapers made out of the same spring steel used in conventional cabinet makers scrapers.
The ones I use were designed mainly for violin work but are just the right size for reeds.
They can easily be shaped to either straight or curved edge (or one of each on opposite sides) and allow good control. I get on better with these than my conventional reed knife.
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Author: v12clarinet73
Date: 2011-11-02 05:25
I've had success with the Rigotti knives, but they do need to be sharpened fairly often. On a side note, does anyone have a video on how to sharpen the different knife types (beveled, double hollow ground, straight, etc.)? It would be helpful for people just beginning to use reed knives and keep them from sharpening them incorrectly.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-11-02 14:26
I like the Vitry double hollow ground knife, it's often unavailable but is inexpensive and works well.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-11-02 17:15
I converted from rush and sandpaper to a knife almost as soon as I started working on reeds. It's much more precise and controllable. I also put a reed over a narrow (2") piece of plate glass and use a strip of 600 black sandpaper over a finger-tip to work on areas that need even thinning over a large area, such as the tip of the reed.
I also use sandpaper over plate glass to flatten the bottom of the reed, and to even out irregularities from using the knife. Finally, I use a completely worn out strip of 1000 grit to do a finishing polish on the vamp and a blank Post Office prepaid post-card for the bottom.
I've used a Vitry knife for 50 years. It takes an excellent edge and is easy to sharpen, which makes up for the relative softness of the steel. Mine is flat on the side away from me and hollow-ground on the side toward me, which is the opposite of what the experts advise, but I can't tell that it makes much difference.
To sharpen it, I put each side flat on a Swaty razor-honing stone, which I got from my father when he switched from a straight to a safety razor. The Swaty is an antique these days and goes for high prices. Just as good is a hard Arkansas stone, which has the advantage over water-stones that it stays flat. I use mine with a few drops of water rather than oil, but either way will do. Hard Arkansas isn't cheap, and you need one as wide as the length of your knife, but it lasts forever.
Oboe players put an edge on a knife and then do a final stroke (with the edge facing away) while rolling up the back of the blade, bending the edge forward. Scrapers like Norman's are prepared this way. This makes the scraping more aggressive and quicker. The disadvantage is that you must renew the edge and the edge-bending frequently. For this kind of preparation, the Vitry is perfect. Harder blades take too much effort.
Any knife costing $20 or more has good enough steel. The real criterion is how the handle fits your hand. My Vitry has a handle shaped like a thin light bulb, which tucks into my palm perfectly. I have large hands with wide palms. What works for me is unlikely to work for anyone else. You look until you find what suits your anatomy.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Buster
Date: 2011-11-02 20:01
Just for clarity, the edge on the cabinet scraper, and the rolling over of the edge that Ken speaks of, are what is referred to as the "burr." Properly done, it allows you to glide the knife over an area and have it precisely scrape away the cane- without any downward pressure. That is what makes a reed knife different than a simple sharp blade. (Without a burr on the edge, you'll most likely have to push down on the knife to start a scrape, leaving a gouge or low spot- never the goal.)
I prefer a harder grade of steel as it holds its' edge better for me, but is not as easy to sharpen as a softer-grade as Ken suggests. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Key is, as also suggested by Ken and Norman, that it be properly sharpened or honed.
Consult your local oboe player if you have questions.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-03 02:39
I was watching a Halloween movie last night. Based on the knife cutting everything in sight it looked liked the perfect reed knife. The ax was a bit big though!
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Author: sdr
Date: 2011-11-03 12:52
I've abandoned by ATG system, my RDG Swiss, and my Reed Wizard in favor of the Reed Geek "Universal". It's small, sharp, pretty indestructible, and does exactly what I want -- flattens the back, thins the rails, allows fine adjustments anywhere I choose.
-sdr
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2011-11-04 16:43
I found the reed knives to be a bit pricey for my tastes so I followed the advise of David Pino (The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing) and obtained a plastic handled X-Acto knife with a #26 blade. Since I could not find it at a craft store (except as part of a set with all sorts of unneeded extras), I bought mine through Amazon. While I was waiting for it to arrive, I used the blade of a standard utility knife (without handle), and got excellent results (found in any hardware store, a package of several costs a couple of bucks). It has enough surface area for a firm grip and control. I regularly use the X-acto knife now, but find a little bit of play in the long thin blade, although not enough to affect the reed thinning process. Although the blade is disposable, I keep it sharp by honing it a few seconds on a piece of leather after every use. In retrospect I would have probably been satisfied with the utility blade, but I was determined to have the "right" equipment. I still keep the utility blade in my case for emergency repairs when away from home. I put pieces of split rubber tubing over the edge and back (held on by a rubber band) to keep it from damaging anything.
LJ
Disclaimer: I do not work for Amazon or a hardware store ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-11-05 00:47
Laurie -
Like you, I've used an X-acto knife from time to time. In an emergency, I've used a well-sharpened pocket knife. Good reed adjustment depends more on experience than on tools.
By the way, you can restore an edge by using a china dining plate. Turn it over and use the un-glazed ring on the bottom in place of a knife steel. I've saved several dinner preparations by putting a dull kitchen knife on a plate bottom.
I've also used my leather wallet for a final stropping. Just don't do it if you've curled over the edge like a scraper. ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
Ken Shaw
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-11-05 13:37
No knives; I use small, very fine grit, round, tapered steel files- very precise control obtainable
richard smith
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-11-05 14:26
Richard -
Many years ago I got a set of 12 small files (X-acto, I think) and tried all of them, but I couldn't avoid making troughs in the cane. How do you avoid this?
I do use the tip of a sharp pointed "rat tail" file occasionally to scrape out part of a thick fiber that's causing uneven vibration.
Ken Shaw
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2011-11-05 21:52
Ken, I used Craftman Needle file set #26757. They have Swiss pattern single-cut teeth. Six in the set; round handles; 5.5 inches long each. I used 3x magnification and refracted light. ( I had the time to spend on such projects; now too old). The article "Romancing the Reed" was helpful and encouraged me. It was in The Clarinet .
richard smith
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-11-06 16:25
I think that being able to see PRECISELY where one is taking the material from is key.
As an oldie myself I now use my Optivisor (normally used in my instrument repair work) and a strong light when adjusting my reeds.
still get it wrong as often as right though!!
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-11-08 00:28
Knives can be expensive but they will last you a lifetime. I use the hollowed center ones, because they take very little time to sharpen. Flat sided knives take along time. Also remember the knives are made left handed or right handed. I also use a diamond sharpener, again this will last you a lifetime and the knife is good for about adjusting 20 reeds or so before the need to resharpen. These prices are pretty decent. Remember these knives will last a lifetime. OK pricing...
service@charlesmusic.com
2988 White Mtn. Hwy.
North Conway
New Hampshire 03860
800-733-3847 orders
603-356-9890 local
603-356-9891 fax
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2011-11-08 00:40)
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