 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: tonyp8008
Date: 2006-01-26 21:49
I have the opportunity to purchase a Buffet Crampon clarinet with the serial number 42964. When I look it up on Steve Grover's Buffet Serial Number List it tells me that it was manufactured in 1953. I was told that it was an R13, but I read on one of the threads on this site that the R13's were not made until after 1953.
Could this be a borderline R13 or is it definetly not an R13. The value/price between the two seems to be substantial.
Any idea as to what it actually is and am I rigt that the difference is cost is quite substantial with the R13's being much more valuable?
Thanks you for whatever information I might get.
Tony
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-01-26 22:00
99.99% it's not a polycylindrical bore R13.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-01-26 22:01
There are some experienced techs that may chime in on this, but here are a few hallmarks to check...
Under the Right hand spatula key cluster, is the wood "relieved" with two notches?
Are there any keys with a small leaf spring beneath them, like that of the register key?
Buffet called several iterations of their top instrument the R13.
The bottom line certainly varies, but how does this horn play?
(That's the real test, is it not?)
Presuming the pads are all freshly replaced, is it more than $1000?
You can find NEW instruments for not much more...
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Author: azuka
Date: 2011-02-10 21:38
48707 (1954 or -55) is the highest pre-R-13 SN I've heard of. The lowest R-13 SN I've found is 48830 (1955). However, there were R-13 prototypes that were sold around that time. (I've seen one, without a serial number, which the owner told me he bought at the factory in 1954.)
You can usually tell the difference by the shape of the key guide for the top two trill keys. The pre-R-13 guide usually had flat, triangular prongs. The R-13 has a cylinder with a slot cut down the middle. However, this change may have predated the R-13 introduction.
A better and more accurate way to tell the difference, is to look at the A/Ab key setup. In the pre-R-13, the rods and posts for these keys are joined together so one post is shared by the two keys. In the R-13 these two keys are totally separate and so there are four posts for these two keys rather than just three as in the pre-R13's.
By the way, Steve Grover's serial number reference chart has been moved to the following url: http://www.eatonrapidsjunkbarn.com/reference/serialnumbers/BuffetCrampon.htm
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-02-11 15:02
azuca -
Thanks for quoting my postings, though I would have preferred if you had given me credit for them.
However, I hadn't known about the Grover chart, which is very useful.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lee
Date: 2011-02-11 16:26
Prior to about 1955 the R-13 sold was a master bore model. 1955 and later the R-13 was a polycylindrical bore model. The A key sharing a post and the change in the trill key guide were two outward changes made about the same time.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2011-02-12 01:26
Buffet started marketing the polycylindrical R-13 in 1955 (serial number around 50,000). The throat "A" and "G#" keys got separate posts. THIS NEW KEY DESIGN for the throat "A" and "G#" keys SIGNIFIES the SWITCH.
The lowest serial number for the year 1955 is "48801" the highest – "51800".
The change occurred with the serial number (around) 50,000. The only difference in the keywork between #48801 and #50000 is the throat "A" and "G#" keys:
48801-50000 - one post is SHARED by the two keys the throat "A" and "G#"
50000 and up - SEPARATE posts the throat "A" and "G#"
Since 1936 professional Buffet clarinets sold in the US had the R-13 designation. The name Pre-R13 is incorrect and confusing. Correct name is "R13 Master Bore".
More info: (please ignore the issue of the spring for the C#/G# key)
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=101034&t=101034
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2011-02-12 01:30)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2011-02-12 02:47
Lee wrote:
>”The A key sharing a post and the change in the trill key guide were two outward changes made about the same time”.<
The trill key guide was changed at the end of 1954
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: mb190d
Date: 2011-02-12 14:50
How does it play and sound? Horns from that era were played by most of the legendary players in performances that are still unrivaled.
After an overhaul, it may be the best-sounding clarinet around. I have #47,926 and the tone is a killer.
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Author: Spinsheet71
Date: 2011-10-04 19:26
Bumping this Back up from earlier this year.... I am an adult student. After playing for 8 months. I am hooked on the clarinet. I would like to upgrade.
I have been reading up on the Buffet history surrounding the R13.
The link below is a supposed "r-13" 1955. The S/N is 50449.
http://s680.photobucket.com/albums/vv166/tradewind71/Buffet%20-%2050449/
Thoughts? Gents
If you need any more measurements/pics I shall try get them for you.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-10-04 20:56
It is not an R13. There are 3 posts for the throat A and Ab keys. The R13 has 4. However, it's a relatively late pre-R13, so it may have at least some of the R13 bore changes.
The only criterion is how it plays and, particularly, how it tunes.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mb190d
Date: 2011-10-04 23:36
I have an horn made in 1954. (47K serial number).
The same horn my teacher was playing in the best bands in NY (NYPhil/Met Opera/etc.) It was the Buffet "Professional" model.
If it makes you sound great, the horn is great. Some of the greatest players who ever lived were playing that instrument.
Forget the technicalities.
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Author: Spinsheet71
Date: 2011-10-05 15:53
mb190d wrote:
> Forget the technicalities.
In a way, I am not to worried. Though, I am into history and something like this horn suits me very well. I just want to know more about it.
I like your screenname. I am a VW diesel guy myself. I drove a 2003 TDI and my wife now has a 2010 TDI wagon. I miss my diesel. I am driving a GTi now. I have been thinking of a MB or VW oilburner again.
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