 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dtiegs
Date: 2011-04-22 01:39
EVERYONE>>> Stop moving so much!
ME>>> Did I?
EVERYONE>>> YEAH... it's bad for you...
ME>>> Why?
SO yeah there, I move a Little. Does it really affect my playing, is it worth it to stop playing like that and learn it < what i consider > a different way? Does do anything at all?
I've recorded it, one moving and one without, and had my MOM play it randomly and I could tell which one I moved on. Just because I feel my own soul through the movements.... and not like a robot...
WHAT are your thoughts???
Thanks,
Dalton
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-04-22 02:26
Lots of really great players move and some move a lot. If it doesn't effect your playing then move as much as you need to. It it effects your playing try to fix it. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-04-22 02:30
I've taken a 180 on my stance on movement.
Less movement is generally preferable to the mechanics of playing, and an ideal situation would be to have less motion while retaining a full range of musical expressiveness.
However, there is a danger to that, which is that an effort to minimize movement may come at the expense of personal involvement in the music, and over time CAN lead to the construction of walls between you and the performance, to a personal disconnect, to more safe and risk-averse playing. I would caution you to not inhibit movement at the expense of the music.
My recommendation: Move when you feel it helps you connect with the music. Don't move when it makes you look like a schmuck.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: fernie51296
Date: 2011-04-22 04:51
I feel your pain! Move all yu want. When you move alot you look like a good performer!
Fernando
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2011-04-22 08:19
I've had someone tell me if a clarinetist doesn't move around when they play it means they're terrible at clarinet.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2011-04-22 11:49
I find that when I am "into" the music, I move quite a bit myself. I don't consciously think about it---I just do it. It's simply part of the expression of the music---like talking with your hands.
I wouldn't feel self-conscious about it---if you worry about it too much, it will make your playing sound overly self-conscious, too.
Remember that the dynamics/phrasing that you hear/feel yourself is always less than the audience can perceive, so you have to exaggerate what you do for it to be perceptible to others. What may seem "overacted" and "cheesy" to you is less likely to seem so to your audience, simply because as practitioners of a skilled art we tend to be a bit self-conscious.
You are far more likely to come off as too bland than too expressive, so don't hold back.
Notice also that pretty much the only people who make such a fuss about movement are other musicians, most of whom could probably stand to loosen up a little themselves. :-) With the average (or even above average :-) ) music listener it makes little difference.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2011-04-22 12:16
One of the attractions of "live music" vs recordings is observing the players' engagement with the music. When this is carried to the extreme of "showmanship" (like too many rock stars) it detracts from the composer's artistic message. On the other hand when it demonstrates the performer's total engagement with the material, I think that it enhances the listener's concert experience. When Rostropovich was our Music Director he encouraged the orchestra members (especially the string players) to move with the music, using the Berlin Philharmonic as a model.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2011-04-22 12:26
Imho, quantifying "moving too much" is difficult. It's one of those "we know it when we see it" things. We don't all inhabit the same body. We don't all play the same music.
To take an extreme example, movement that looks natural and may even be necessary to get the right sounds in free jazz played fortissimo and presto would look overdone and silly at the quiet, legato end of a Brahms sonata. Someone who plays while seated may move a great deal more from the waist up, and look good doing it, than someone who plays while standing.
The size of the venue matters, too. Picture a large audience sitting in an urban concert hall complete with upper tiers and balconies. The soloist looks comparatively small in front of a full orchestra with a pipe organ in the background on an enormous stage with fancy draperies. That setting absorbs a lot of movement. In fact, the soloist who hardly moves at all can nearly disappear. But, if the same musician performs the same piece in an intimate setting, say a private living room with the orchestra on a recorded "Music Minus One" CD instead of live, while a few friends and family members sit almost within touching distance, then it looks right for the musician to keep the body movements considerably smaller.
Now picture that same concert, in the same hall, but instead of sitting in the audience, you're watching a live telecast on your home TV. The movements that look right on the stage may look tastelessly overdone in closeup, on the small screen. What's a musician supposed to do in such a situation? Find a happy medium, I guess -- as an amateur, I never have to worry about this sort of thing -- but finding that medium can't be easy.
In Chieftains performances, I've seen some of the musicians do a few little jig-steps at the beginnings or ends of solos. The musicians were having fun and the audience loved it -- but imagine a clarinet player dancing an Irish jig while playing the Mozart concerto. I've never heard of anybody really doing that (!), but the point is that, if we scale my exaggerated examples down to what we do see in real life, what looks natural and right in one setting seems inappropriate in another. Context is everything.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2011-04-22 12:35
Practice in front of a mirror, and choreograph all of your movements.......
It sure seems like some players do, or did when they were younger.
Extreme movement I equate with a bag of greasy fries. Some movement is good, and certainly preferable to a frozen player who doesn't seem engaged with the music, but enough is enough!
Move with the music, but don't look like you are performing a dance recital.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-04-22 13:50
To offer contrasting views, sometimes the movement can cause distortion in the tone. There are also players whose movements I find so distracting that I don't look at them.
Do what works for you.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-04-22 20:34
I guess we have been through this question several times in earlier threads - however Ed P says here that many great players move and some move a lot.
Well whilst I agree that I don't want to see a frozen image on stage I would say that most of the greatest players I have seen live don't move a lot (and that includes violinists etc). They just express the music through their playing of the instrument.
I can think of several great clarinetists who do fall into the "moves a lot" category and whilst I will happily listen to them on radio or CD I no longer would go out of my way to see them live - their excessive movements add nothing to the music for me and in fact seem pretentious, distracting and tiresome.
I get the feeling that the growth of this phenoma over recent years ties in with the growth of the ME ME society.
Most great players can create really great music without prancing like a fairy.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2011-04-22 21:08
i think as long as your head and the clarinet stay constant RELATIVE WITH EACH OTHER, then you are fine.
but if they move RELATIVE TO EACH OTHER (for instance, your clarinet turned left but your head didnt), then that might mess up things.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-22 21:53
I must admit watching the Berlin Phil and the West-Eastern Divan orchestra on the BBC proms the other year, several times I felt like saying 'sit ****ing still!' to the principal clarinettists in both as they kept bobbing and ducking the whole time.
Not just subtle nodding, swaying, moving or sweeping their instrument, but huge movements. Not that it's an attack on their playing at all, but the amount of bodily movement was very distracting.
We all move to a degree as we play - it's almost unconscious, but excessive movement takes thought and effort and is far from being unconscious.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-04-23 00:46
if "EVERYONE" means the people who were your audience, then you might want to consider toning it down. Imagine you continue to play, and now less people come to hear you play because you're too distracting and it annoys them to watch you play.
Think of it this way...
CUSTOMERS: Stop putting so much salt on all your food!
CHEF: Is it too salty?
CUSTOMERS: Yeah.
How long you think that chef is gonna be in business?
IMO, I don't like people who move way too much. It IS distracting for me. I do like to see someone who is in the music and shows expressiveness in their playing, but I've seen people move a whole hell of a lot and it distracts me. I've actually seen people move SO much they hit the stand with their clarinet, I've BEEN hit with a clarinet by someone moving a lot next to me while playing duets.
You can certainly do what you want, it's your playing, but if it's bother others THAT much, maybe it's worth considering their thoughts.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarinettefaerie
Date: 2011-04-23 01:51
Like others have said, if moving is changing your embouchure, then don't move in that particular way, at least. I know that from my own experience, I have to be careful that my upper lip is securing the mouthpiece enough so that the mouthpiece is not wiggling around while I'm playing. This can create distortions in tone.
I support moving around, because it allows you to rise and fall with the musical lines, both physically and mentally. I am friends with an oboe player who is incapable of moving at all... and he is a dreadful musician. Moving in ensemble settings is actually very important. The ISU Wind Symphony played Holst's Hammersmith last February, and the part in the beginning "river" section where all the clarinets come in was not very secure for a while; our attack wasn't always together and sounded "iffy". We all decided to breathe and move to the attack in unison... insecurity solved right away. In chamber ensembles especially, moving with the lines is vital.
But...
Understand this. Moving around a lot also promotes extra tension in the arms and wrists. Right before I graduated from high school, I had to stop playing clarinet for 8 weeks because of a muscle injury, which I later found out was caused by excessive muscle stress/tension... and I moved around a great deal at that point. After 2 years after the injury, I'm still forced to play with a neckstrap because my wrist can't handle the weight of the clarinet for very long.
So, if you decide to continue to move with musical lines, be careful that you aren't creating extra stress and tension in your hands and wrists, because you will regret it down the road.
Post Edited (2011-04-23 01:53)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-04-23 03:53
Moving adds doppler pitch variation to your music. Its kinda subtle because the movement of your clarinet's sound source (where does the sound come out) has to be small compared to the 1117 ft/sec speed of sound.
Yet, I have a paper somewhere that did an analysis of player motion.
Lets all go dial up Sabina Meyer on youtube and watch her both dance and play. It that's not enough, look at Natalie McMaster fiddling....
There was a thread here a few months back asking for advice on how to quit sitting like a stone while playing.
Bob Phillips
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Author: clarinettefaerie
Date: 2011-04-23 04:00
That's genius. I never would have thought of the doppler effect in this case... but that makes so much sense.
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Author: ddavani
Date: 2011-04-23 04:37
I've experienced the exact same scenario several times before, and to tell you the truth, I have to think about standing in one place which affects my performances in a negative way. Moving while playing is an expression of what you are feeling through the performance of your art and it really can enhance your performance if you move in a tame way, not overly exaggerated, but what your body does naturally. To tell you the truth, I've never seen a good performance where the clarinetist just stood still on stage, look at Stanley Drucker and Ricardo Morales, two of the best players in the world who allow their music to come through in their body motion. Give that a little bit of thought and don't let people judge your performance in that way.
-Dave Davani
http://allclarinet.blogspot.com/
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Author: ddavani
Date: 2011-04-23 04:53
I have though seen Stanley do it several times at the American Chamber Ensemble concerts, David. In terms of Ricardo, it may just be my imagination, and you may be very right, but my point is that he does move around a bit, he isn't just stuck in one position. I apologize for any confusion.
-Dave Davani
http://allclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2011-04-23 04:56)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-04-23 05:27
The doppler should be negligible. More likely, you'd be hearing variations in tone due to the instrument being pointed toward different surfaces. If you're moving fast enough to create a noticeable doppler effect, you'll likely have more problems with running into things.
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/default/doppler
At 5 miles per hour (a brisk walk), you might get a few cents of variation. Contrast this to the variation you'll get by all the other factors your movement causes, and it's negligible.
We clarinetists (myself included) have a tendency to try to solve problems that don't exist. Just make music, people!
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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