 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Fishamble
Date: 2011-04-03 20:45
Hi,
When playing written F4 or C6 (i.e. only left thumb used), I find that I need to use my right index finger against a key post to prevent the instrument form being pushed away from me, and to provide security for my embouchure.
I don't mind that it's resulted in a welt that a rope-tuggin' sailor would be impressed by. But sometimes doing this results in clumsy technique when my RH index finger is needed immediately after these notes.
Any experienced bass players have thoughts on this? Is there a means of supporting the instrument in place that I'm missing? I prefer not to use a sling, BTW.
Thanks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-04-03 22:49
I use my index finger in my RH gently pressing against the RH rods. Never have a problem. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-04 00:31
It depends on the angle of the mouthpiece due to the shape of the crook - on instruments where the mouthpiece is almost parallel with the floor (eg. Bundy, Vito and Noblet basses), tilting the bass forward to get a more downward angle will force the player to use some kind of anchor to prevent it tipping forwards on F and open G.
The only real solution here is to use a sling (attached to the ring on the top joint) in conjunction with the floor spike to keep it in place - not always practical, but far less expensive in comparison to getting a new crook with a steeper angle or having your existing crook altered.
This is less of a problem on basses with more angled crooks (eg. Buffet, Selmer and Yamaha basses) as the mouthpiece is at a much steeper angle and the instrument can rest perpendicular to the floor (or with the lower end held outwards a bit) without it wanting to tip forwards on F and open G.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-04-04 01:53
Yes, I'm all for the neck strap...........those notes are what they are made for, right?
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-04 03:05
If you place the peg closer to you it'll tip away from you which is what you don't want.
Place the peg further away and it'll tip towards you which is better - but it all depends on the angle of the mouthpiece.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fishamble
Date: 2011-04-04 08:36
Thanks for all the advice.
Ed, you've provided a sanity check. Most helpful. Curious, I'll think about lightening my touch - that could help with aforementioned technique.
ChrisP, the crook is a modern Buffet, so no scope for improvement there. The angle I like and play best with is dictating the placement of the floor peg, which may well be quite tight to my body.
Paul, I guess that *is* what it the neck strap is for. I find the neck strap restrictive and, to be honest, unpleasant to use when I'm sitting down. My own loss, of course. I'll need to balance the issues and figure out what works best.
Tx,
David.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-04 08:52
More often than not when I'm playing bass, most chairs aren't tall enough so I can only angle it outwards - I'm 5'11" so not exactly short and I generally hold clarinets outwards instead of downwards.
I've got a Buffet Prestige bass and do find the angle of the mouthpiece a bit on the steep side, so holding it so the spike is away from me does let it tip back towards me a bit so playing the thumb F isn't a worry.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fishamble
Date: 2011-04-04 09:50
Chris, I've the same instrument. And the same problems with chairs...and I'm at a 3'' disadvantage to you!
But, I find that when I hold the bass further out than I currently do, I start to experience pain in my shoulder after a time. My current posture is pain-free, but a little less secure.
David.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BflatNH
Date: 2011-04-04 13:01
Attachment: 100_1103R.jpg (278k)
For me, how and how much of of the mouthpiece I receive are probably the highest considerations, and I adjust how I hold the bass to receive the mouthpiece as I want.
I played a piece with a lot happening in the high clarion and way up into altissimo that was too fast to allow holding against any other part of the bass with unused fingers. I have trouble dealing with the neck strap.
I came up with a bass clarinet support (shown in the attachment) that allows me to play without any need use my hands to hold the bass (mouthpiece is enough), yet be pliant enough to allow me to lean it forward when I want to get a little more mouthpiece. Bear in mind, it is not a stand and the bass still must be held when not playing. I can now pay more attention to embouchure and fingering.
Post Edited (2011-04-04 13:04)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fishamble
Date: 2011-04-04 15:56
That is clever. Do you feel there's any risk that the additional strain where the peg is attached to the bell would be detrimental to the bell or the lowest tenon?
Do you use it always, or only when the technical demands of the piece require it? And if not, do you find it necessary to stabilise the bass with unused fingers occasionally?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2011-04-04 17:21
Perhaps Paul was suggesting using the strap along with the peg. The strap would help on the notes in question.
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2011-04-04 19:04
I play the bass clarinet with my right hand thumb on top of, rather than underneath, the thumb rest. The weight of my hand on the thumb rest probably stabilizes the instrument while playing left hand thumb-only notes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fishamble
Date: 2011-04-04 21:05
"Perhaps Paul was suggesting using the strap along with the peg."
Yes, I think so. It feels terribly restrictive to me - it's like I'm locked into it somehow. It's fine if I'm standing because I can easily pivot the bass on the hook to move the mouthpiece away.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fishamble
Date: 2011-04-04 21:12
"I play the bass clarinet with my right hand thumb on top of, rather than underneath, the thumb rest."
Hmmm. I'll try that.
It has occurred to me that if the adjustable part of the thumb rest were hooked right around the back of your thumb, it would allow your right thumb to resist the force from your left thumb on the notes in question. I suppose one could be made. Anyone heard of that as an off-the-shelf accessory?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kilo
Date: 2011-04-04 21:36
GeorgeL beat me to it — the right thumb can really help here. I know there's just enough of a hook on the thumbrest of my bass to allow me to stabilize those notes. (That feeling of the left thumb pushing the mouthpiece out of the mouth is really nightmarish.)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-04-04 21:36
I don't think there is, but anyone used to working with sheet metal (brass or nickel silver or even aluminium) could probably make you something.
With a low C bass you still need to use your right thumb so a thumb ring is out of the question, but you could have something made up that has more of a curve to it so you can use the back of your right thumb to steady it with, but not so much of an enclosed curve that will prevent or hinder you using the thumb keys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-04-05 00:46
Wow, so many different suggestions. I don't like a neck strap either. In addition to what I said above, I should have added that in some passages, just a few, I'll support the bell with my feet for security purposes. Mostly I support the bass with my top teeth on the top of the mouthpiece. ESP
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fishamble
Date: 2011-04-05 10:17
I'm thinking a custom cocobolo right-thumb hook might solve the problem, AND achieve that dreamt-of sound at last :-)
Thanks everyone. This has been very helpful.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BflatNH
Date: 2011-04-05 11:16
On whether the support puts a strain on the lower tenon or connection with the bell (where the peg support attaches), I have not noticed any probably since most of the force is vertical from the weight of the bass.
It really spoils me, and although I may not need it all the time, it is really nice to have free fingers (including the thumbs). If I put my foot on one of the legs (as insurance), the bass stands free and I can use both hands for something else (e.g. changing music). The only time I stabilize with unused fingers is when I want to lean it forward a bit with the RH thumb pushing away, or use the conventional peg.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
