 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Loliver
Date: 2011-03-10 09:15
This may seem like a bit of an odd question but...
Why do some A clarinets have the low Eb lever? My understanding was that it was on the Bb clarinet so that people only needed the one instrument, but I cannot see why it is on an A clarinet...
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-03-10 12:19
Most A clarinets do not come with a "low Eb lever" (adding a low Eb below the normal range of the clarinet).
Many A clarinets come with a LH Eb lever that allows you to play the 2nd register D#/Eb (or 1st register G#/Ab) with the pinky of the left hand instead of the right hand.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-10 12:27
Some A clarinets do have a low-Eb key (I have one, and had another one in the past). Don't know why they made these.
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Author: CocoboloKid
Date: 2011-03-10 13:12
James, he is referring to full-Boehm A clarinets, which do indeed have a low Eb.
A logical guess (other than the symmetry of having a full-Boehm version of every member of the clarinet family; I've seen FB Eb and C clarinets as well) is that the low Eb on the A clarinet gives you a low concert C, which could theoretically be quite useful.
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Author: PrincessJ
Date: 2011-03-10 13:33
I think Coco up there hit the nail on the head.
I use my low Eb all the time, and have found more than plenty uses for it, not to mention it does make certain passages much smoother in the lower clarion, speaking from my personal preferences of keywork.
-Jenn
Circa 1940s Zebra Pan Am
1972 Noblet Paris 27
Leblanc Bliss 210
1928 Selmer Full Boehm in A
Amateur tech, amateur clarinetist, looking to learn!
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2011-03-10 15:21
Jumping to the wrong conclusion -- a perfect beginning to my day!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2011-03-10 18:10
The low Eb on the A , and the Bb as well makes an excellent middle of the stave Bb usually used with the LH G#/ Ab side key.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-03-10 19:17
I've seen a Bb/A "full" Mazzeo System pair, on which the A had the low Eb. The owner, a Mazzeo student, said they put the extra key on the A not because it was ever called for but to make them look and balance the same.
What gets built gets used. 25 years ago few people had a bass to low C. Now composers are writing for the low notes, and professionals have to have them.
Before the popularity of basset clarinet extensions, Alan Hacker had one made and Peter Maxwell Davies wrote pieces for him using the extended notes. Fortunately, unlike the low-C bass, the extension never caught on for soprano clarinets. If it had, all of us would need right thumb transplants.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-10 19:37
Well, Ken, Russian composers like Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Stravinsky were actually writing for low-C bass clarinet before (I think) the instrument had actually been developed! Larry Bocaner and I had an interesting discussion about that anachronism on this BB a few years ago. So, it seems that was actually a case of the technology lagging, rather than leading, the need.....
Back on topic, you've all missed the most important reason to have a full-Boehm "A" clarinet, which is the Cool Factor. It's like owning a car with 600 horsepower --- you don't need it and you'll probably never get the chance to really use it, but it feels good to know it's there "just in case".
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2011-03-10 20:09
I had a memory of coming across a written low Eflat on A clarinet in a Mahler symphony, although flicking through parts just now I couldn't find it.
But Mahler certainly writes low Eflat on the Bflat clarinet - e.g. the 2nd movement of the 9th symphony, which for most of us means a fast change to A and sight transposition. This raises an interesting question: many people claim Mahler had a keen idea of different clarinet sounds, so one would guess he was expecting players to be able to get hold of an extended Bflat instrument. But all discussion of this extra key I've ever read refers to "full Boehm" clarinets - so what about in the German world? Do Oehlers ever come with this extra key? If not, then do we conclude that Mahler didn't bother to discover the actual range of a clarinet; or that he decided not to be bound by such mundane restrictions; or that after all he didn't care about the A/Bflat sound difference and assumed it was obvious that people would switch to the A where convenient?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-10 20:19
Mahler writes for low Bbs on cor anglais as well, so he does seem to like these extended ranges that aren't the norm. As low B footjoints on flutes are more popular, it's taken for granted that all flautists will have low B footjoints - but in places like the UK you still find many pro players with low C footjoints.
As for full Boehm A clarinets, it's best to have a matching pair with the same keywork so you can do what you do on your Bb as you would want to do on your A - the mid-line Bb being played as low Eb with the speaker key for example. I did see a pair of Yamahas on eBay several years back now - the Bb was full Boehm (20/7) but the A was 19/7, so it could prove a pain if you're used to using the low Eb as an alternative mid-line Bb, you wouldn#t be able to on the A.
And with a full Boehm A, you have a very useful range when it comes to playing viola transcriptions.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-11 15:47
It's interesting but I've never come across an A clarinet with a low Eb, almost never even had anyone come in with a Bb with one. The vast majority of professionals, in the USA at least, use the standard range clarinets. I'm sure there are some exceptions of course. As far as the bass clarinet being built to a low C, it is true what David says about the Russian composers. It's my belief that someone in Russia built and extension for their bass clarinet and the local composers liked it and wrote for it. Before the low C bass became popular players had extensions built that were portable. My first two years in the Baltimore symphony I used a low Eb bass, never need the extension but realizing I will need it at some point I purchased my low C Selmer, the first low C they produced, I still us it, the best I've ever tried. That next year we did several of the Russian pieces that needed the low notes, good timing. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-03-11 18:12
One advantage to the extra range is that it makes your middle line B natural sound great, and it matches the C much more easily.
Strauss Elektra has several low E flats in it, but this is more likely a copyist error as the part is in B flat- I imagine Strauss wrote it at concert pitch expecting the copyist to do the part for A clarinet.
dn
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-11 18:30
The A is from 1962 - still with the original silver plated keywork which polished up a treat when I rebuilt it. It's a lovely instrument to play as well as being incredibly well made.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-11 18:35
Some of Strauss's clarinet allocations go against convention - so I'm not sure if he intended a Bb to be used where things would be much easier on an A (and vice versa) or if his copyists decided that.
Considering he was one of two later major name composers to edit Berlioz's treatise I thought he ought to know his stuff.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2011-03-11 21:07
In the violin/clar/piano suite from Stravinsky's "L'histoire ..." there's a low Eb for the A clarinet. Dvorak expects a low A from the E. H., Strauss and Respighi require cello and bass to retune to reach low B, there's the famous low A for bassoon at the end of the Nielsen quintet, etc.
It seems like no matter how low an instrument can go, someone will want it to go lower.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-11 21:47
Just remembered Strauss expected the Heckelphone to go beyond its low A to low F in 'Alpensinfonie' - Guntram Wolf's Lupophone has fulfilled this shortcoming as it's built to low F.
Some bassoons were built with the low A 'Wagner bell' - I think it's 'Parsifal' that calls for the bassoon low A and there's no practical way of having the contra play it due to the scoring.
Then there's the famous case of Ravel scoring for an F sopranino sax in 'Bolero' (with a soprano taking over when the tune goes out of the elusive F sopranino's lower range) when a Bb soprano would have been perfectly adequate as it only goes to high Eb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-03-12 14:33
At least in the Nielsen Quintet, it's traditional to drop the English horn bell in the top of the bassoon. More fussy players put black tape over a paper towel roll core and cut it to length. Forrest's Music makes an ABS one for $8.95 http://www.forrestsmusic.com/bassoon_bocals.htm. In any case, the B above becomes flat and honky, even when Sol Schoenbach played it, so the truly artistic will spring for the extra thousands for a Heckel end joint with an extra key plus an extended bell (though Schoenbach didn't, at least in the Nielsen). In the original recording, by the players Nielsen wrote it for, the bassoonist played it up an octave.
Back to clarinet, I've tried a number of low-Eb ones and never found one where the clarion low Bb was in tune or sounded good.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-03-13 18:20
Ken,
I'm glad you mentioned the "clarion Bb" intonation issue. This situation just sounds UNNATURAL from the word GO since the Boehm low clarion is designed as a compromise anyway.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2011-03-13 23:39
As someone mentioned Electra, the Eb-clarinet part has 2-3 low D. Has anyone ever seen an E-flat cl to low D?
Alphie
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-03-14 01:26
Yes, I agree about Clarion B flat, but the B natural (middle line) sounds way better.
dn
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-03-14 05:27
>Before the popularity of basset clarinet extensions, Alan Hacker had one made >and Peter Maxwell Davies wrote pieces for him using the extended notes. >Fortunately, unlike the low-C bass, the extension never caught on for soprano >clarinets. If it had, all of us would need right thumb transplants.
Because I own a basset clarinet in A, I recently played the basset clarinet in A part in Thomas Ades' Chamber Symphony, written not long ago. It appears parts for clarinets with basset extension are still being written from time to time (and perhaps, by the look of it, only in England).
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2011-03-14 05:57
I find that the Eb extension used as a middle of the stave Bb sound very well in tune if you use the LH side G#/Ab key for pitch correction. As for tonal quality , on my Amati at least , it blends very well with the B natural and sounds full bodied because of it being a full fingered note quite different from the 'throat ' Bb.
I love using it when this Bb is a long held note but it is not always practical to get to it.
The B natural also benefits from the G#/Ab side key as well.
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