 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ABR
Date: 2011-03-07 19:26
Hello all,
I'm interested in your thoughts on the real value of using both an A and Bb clarinet, other than the obvious convenience of playing in "easier" keys. It seems to be the opinion of most clarinetists (and musicians in general) that having a mastery of all keys is a basic requirement of musicianship. I have never owned an A, and have gotten by in orchestras by simply transposing the parts for Bb. Yes, this has made some parts difficult, but definitely not impossible. I guess my real question is if it's acceptable to freely substitute A or Bb for technically difficult passages, and it's acceptable to play C clarinet parts on Bb, why on earth is an orchestral clarinetist still expected to own A and Bb clarinets when they are so close in timbre and key?
ABR
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-03-07 19:36
IMO, other than fingering issues in different keys, there are some solo parts for A written with a low E. This isn't a problem if you've a Full Boehm Bb, but if you don't, you ruin the line of the music.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2011-03-07 20:01
Whilst some very technically proficient players obviously can play any A part on the Bb I don't honestly think they could always make all the A parts sound as fluent and musical as if they played it on the A.
there are some fingering movements that just don't flow as easily e.g. middle staff B/C# and no matter how good you sounded you would still sound better on the correct instrument.
Imagine the Mozart concert or quintet played on the Bb !
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-03-07 20:31
There is also a slight change in tone or Tamber that perhaps the composer may have been looking for. Its a slight difference in character, but there.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: lllebret
Date: 2011-03-07 22:17
The half step difference places the throat tones on different notes in the line; this could possibly affect the timbre of the musical line if the composer knew enough about the clarinet to take advantage of the differring timbre of the various registers when he composed the piece.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-08 01:18
I think the argument of playing a C part on the Bb and playing an A part on the Bb does not hold water. One is that there is a wealth of A clarinet music written for the A. There is only a select amount on the C clarinet, mostly for the 19th and early 20th century. I think the biggest argument for using an A clarinet is that there's so much written for the A clarinet and most passages will simply sound smoother on the A than on the Bb. Firebird Suite, Daphnis and Chloe suite #2, Kodaly Dalanta Dances, Brahms 4th, Rimsky Korsakov Scheherazade and Capriccio Espagnol, Tchakovsky 5th and 6th just to mention a few. No matter how much technique and ability to transpose one has, I just can't see it in the vast majority of pieces. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2011-03-08 01:27
I know my husband can reliably tell the difference in tone quality between an A and a B flat clarinet, even when playing the same concert pitch note, and he's a pianist and organist. I know I can, even with works that are available for both clarinets.
Some keys also work far better on the A than on the Bb. Take written F# minor. I've found that this key can produce some tricky finger combinations which using alternate fingerings is not possible; I once played a piece for soprano, clarinet and piano my husband wrote in this key which the Bb clarinet has some difficult finger combinations, which would have been much easier on an A clarinet. (I did not have an A at the time he wrote this composition).
And tonally, some notes are better on one or the other.
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-03-08 01:37
Until fairly recently, many players in Italy played everything on the Bb and had full-Boehm clarinets with the low Eb to reach the A clarinet's low E. The question is whether you can play easily enough in extreme keys to carry it off. Robert Williman, in his wonderful (and, alas, OOP) book The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing, says that, for example, the Saint-Saens Tarantella probably can't tossed off with the necessary nonchalance on the Bb. Unless you have fingers like Drucker or Neidich, you need an A clarinet.
There's definitely a difference in tone color between Bb and A, but good players can push the sound either way. Color often gives way to playability, and even in major symphonies there are famously difficult passages that are more often than not played on the "wrong" clarinet, for example the two nasty little solos for 1st and 2nd clarinet at the beginning of the finale of the Brahms 2nd. And if you don't have a C clarinet, the Tchaikovsky Mozartiana cadenza is ferocious on Bb, but not bad on A. There have been several interesting threads here and on the Klarinet list on the subject:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1998/03/001402.txt
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/1998/03/001413.txt
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=298046&t=298020
More important, the clarinet has definite tone colors for various notes. Number 1 of the Schumann Fantasy Pieces is more often than not played on the Bb to avoid the Eb octave clarion/altissimo slur and the one up to a loud altissimo C#. However, the opening phrase then ends on throat Bb rather than low clarion B, and that sounds weird enough there and elsewhere to convince me to take a chance on the slurs.
In the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique, the short solo at the beginning of the March to the Scaffold is written for clarinet in C, but it's an easy transposition and is usully played on Bb. However, played on C clarinet it uses the same fingerings the Eb uses shortly afterward. For me, the connection between the two solos is obvious on C/Eb and is lost if the first is played on Bb. Greg Smith agrees and says that in Chicago a C clarinet is used, for that reason. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=51955&t=51845
It's fun to play the Mozart Concerto or Quintet on Bb a half step down, and it's a really good device to reveal unevenness of tone color and technique, but I don't think anyone would do it in performance.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2011-03-08 02:17
I've played both, and find the A and Bb to be completely different instruments. Their timbre and personalities are quite dissimilar.
I had this same question a few years ago when I was playing A, Bb, and C in an opera. From what I learned, some composers did hear an A timbre when he could have written for the Bb horn. Likewise with the C. Hence, the choice made.
Post Edited (2011-03-08 02:18)
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Author: shahn
Date: 2011-03-08 06:27
Yes, lllebret's answer seems to be thoughtful, along with fluency in difficult passages.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2011-03-08 23:42
I believe it is in Yehudi Menuhin's Music Guides: Clarinet by Jack Brymer that a story is told of a clarinetist who was forced to hock his A and therefore played everything (for quite a while) on his Bb. The conductor never noticed.
Bob Phillips
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Author: allencole
Date: 2011-03-09 17:53
I'm sure that a lot of technical differences can be made up with sufficient practice--if you have the chance to practice them.
But try improvising along with a fiddle player A or E (concert!), that A clarinet makes it a lot easier not to get left in the dust.
I also discovered that the Shamblin/McAuliffe soli on "Bob Wills Special" requires a low concert C# (for the upper part!) which is not available on B-flat clarinet. Note that when the same band featured a clarinet on "Home in San Antone" they did it in F...
So even in popular music, I think the A makes life a lot better. It's low register also opens up nicely on a legit setup and can help to placate a bandleader who's been listening to a creole adherent.
On relative facility of the instruments, I do think it's a real issue. I find it hard to play with true abandon moving 6-8 fingers simultaneously and in opposite directions. Not as much of a problem on sax for reasons we all are aware of. And we're not alone in this...
I've been surprised at the whining I hear from some decent C&W string guys about how they could express themselves better if I were to move even a slow song into a really sharp key. (that would be "Faded Love" on a pedal steel) One bass player complained to me about doing "In the Mood" in the traditional Ab. His beef was that he'd get wrist pain playing something with no open strings.
I just say 'no problem' and grab the A.
Allen Cole
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