 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-01 01:36
Does the bass clarinet part in Mahler one require the bass clarinetists to play any other clarinets?
Is it possible for the bass to play the second Eb part, or is the bass clarinet playing during the Eb sections?
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-03-01 03:03
>Does the bass clarinet part in Mahler one require the bass clarinetists to play any >other clarinets?
The bass clarinet part in Mahler 1 includes (in descending order) Eb clarinet, C clarinet, Bb clarinet and A clarinet.
(I recently checked this out since I am about to play the bass part in Mahler 1 in an orchestra other than my own.)
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Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Metropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-03-01 03:04
When I played that part in 1988, I used bass for the bass parts, and Bb & A (I think both are in there) for the soprano parts plus the lower of the two Eb parts. But the way the part is written you'd need bass, Eb, C, Bb, & A. (I may have forgotten about the Bb/A requirements but IMO they might as well be the same instruments.)
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Author: am0032
Date: 2011-03-01 03:41
When I performed it, I rewrote the Eb part for Bb clarinet so I only had to use 3 instruments instead of 4.
Adam
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2011-03-01 05:21
Simon, are you sure about the Bb in the 3rd clarinet part? I've played this book twice and found it ironic that the one clarinet my part didn't call for was the Bb. As I recall, it's bass clarinet (1st mvt), A clarinet (2nd mvt), Bass and Eb clarinets (3rd mvt) and C clarinet (4th mvt).
Salzo, The bass clarinetist could cover the Eb part in the first movement and the Eb is tacit in the second movement. The bass clarinetist (playing lead Eb) has a duet with the Eb player in the third movement. It is, however, brief and the 1st or 2nd clarinetist (neither of whom is playing at the time) could cover one of the Eb parts, if necessary. All four clarinets do play together in the final movement, however. Given all the doubling that goes on, the 3rd clarinet might not be missed too much if the 3rd clarinetist played the Eb part in this movement, instead. (But Mahler would know. )
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2011-03-01 05:44)
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-01 10:20
WOw. I thought the second Eb was played by the second clarinetist.
I am playing the Mahler, and we were trying to figure out who was going to play second Eb-the only other clarinetists who plays Eb is the bass player, so it is going to work out after all. THanks for setting me straight.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-01 10:51
THanks Karl.
Parts were very helpful. I noticed in the 4th part, the Eb clarinetists has to play four notes on the Bb at the end of the third movement. It is the only time the Eb player has to pick up the Bb-but the 3rd clarinet is not playing anything at that moment-I assume it is kosher for the 3rd clarinet player to play those four notes instead of the Eb player?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-01 12:00
Did this last year. What Jack said, the part indeed is for bass, A soprano, C soprano, and Eb soprano clarinets. And as for the four notes of Bb clarinet written in the otherwise-Eb-only book, I played those (an octave up) on the bass clarinet so the eefer guy wouldn't have to get a beefer ready just for them. Also, he and I switched parts for the eefer duet sections, to put him on top and me with the harmony part.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-01 12:34
Beefer!
Please make sure whenever you do Mahler 1 it's done with FOUR players and NOT with parts 3 and 4 played by the one player as there are important bass and Eb parts on both 3 and 4 being played at the same time, so not practical to do with three players at all.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-01 12:49
Quite right, Chris! If an Eb clarinet is an "eefer", than a Bb clarinet must be a "beefer", si? We've had this discussion before on the BB. Reminds me of a topic within the BMW automobile/motorcycle community in the US, where it is gospel that BMW automobiles shall be referred to as "Bimmers" whereas BMW motorcycles are "Beamers". Anyone who gets those mixed up is deemed a rookie or a blasphemer.....
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-01 14:28
Eb, Bb, 2nd Eb, bass, c, a, switch parts on the Eb, play bass up an octave, 4th play 3rd, 3rd play 2nd, eefers, beefers, jeepers creepers I am dizzy reading all of this!!
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-03-01 15:41
"Simon, are you sure about the Bb in the 3rd clarinet part?
You are right, there is no Bb in the 3rd part. I checked online as to the clarinets required, instead of checking in the actual part.
IMSLP lists the 3rd part as "3 (bass clarinet) (Bb, A, C, Eb)" which I inferred as meaning there was Bb.
Interestingly, in David Daniels' orchestration book, "Orchestral Music", he lists the 3rd part as bass clarinet/Eb cl.1 and the 4th part as Eb cl.2.
Simon
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-03-01 17:27
Yes, it is true, it is bass, A, C, usually played on the Bb) and Eb. Most orchestras do switch the Eb duet so the Eb player plays the top line and the bass player plays the lower voice, less worrying about your reed that way too. It is also possible for the lower part to be transposed to the Bb clarinet but it will sound "more better" if it's done on the Eb. I agree, you should never try to do this piece with three players. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: graham
Date: 2011-03-02 15:10
Really: I draw the line at playing the lower strand of the E flat duet on a B flat. That is unforgiveable even in a diffie amateur orchestra
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-02 17:49
Thank you, graham! I in fact was playing the piece in a "diffie" amateur orchestra (although we had a "ringer" on the Eb book, a retired Washington NSO clarinetist), and darned if I didn't play my little lower-strand Eb licks on the proper clarinet! Heck, I even shelled out $300 for an el-cheapo Chinese C clarinet* just for that gig, to be able to play the part on the instrument intended by the composer.
By the way, what does "diffie" mean? I can guess, but would rather get the official definition from the source. Not a term I've heard in the States.
*discussed in a separate thread on the BB last year
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Author: graham
Date: 2011-03-03 20:29
David. Happy to help out. To me "diffie" means: only marginally worth doing, or on the border of painfully awful.
graham
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-03-03 20:56
Thanks, graham. "On the border of painfully awful" is a good description of our last community orchestra concert, during which we played three original compositions along with a mainstream piece. The three modern works were godawful. Nothing but noise. We couldn't agree on whether the audience suffered more, or less, than the players. Come to think of it, the concert was actually "sub-diffie".
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