 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Pascal
Date: 2011-01-21 12:42
Hi!
A new student came to take classes with me after one year with some other teacher. She is playing a Buffet E11 clarinet and couldn't play the third A in tune... it was almost a G#. I've play-tested the clarinet and it does play in tune. She tried it in my Yamaha CX and could play that third A 440 but in a tuning position that for me would be 443 or 444! She plays constantly flat in the third register. I guess the other teacher just compensated with his embouchure when they were playing duets, but I want to help her solve her problem. I told her about tongue position, throat focus, air pressure... but to no avail. I mean, after one year she's supposed to have a fairly formed embouchure to play a simple A above the staff, I guess? She seems quite dedicated to the instrument. Any suggestions from experienced teachers out there?
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-01-21 12:56
Work on one thing at a time. Make sure her embouchure is firm enough first. Concentrate on that for a lesson or two, or until the pitch comes up a bit. Then go on to tongue position and air support.
My guess is that she's not using enough lip pressure on the reed, but it's impossible to know without being in the same room with her...
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2011-01-21 13:33
Have you considered the angle at which she holds the instrument? I play flat if the instrument is too close to the vertical.
Tony F.
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Author: PrincessJ
Date: 2011-01-21 15:01
I agree with Tony F - tell her to sit on the edge of the chair, hold good posture, and pull the instrument closer in (more vertical). Make sure she's not biting, tell her to let the clarinet come to her, and use her arms and hands to support the instrument, not her teeth. Bite less, and have her move her jaw forward (not up!) on those notes.
Hope I could be of some help! Also, make sure her breath support is, indeed, consistent and strong.
-Jenn
Circa 1940s Zebra Pan Am
1972 Noblet Paris 27
Leblanc Bliss 210
1928 Selmer Full Boehm in A
Amateur tech, amateur clarinetist, looking to learn!
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Author: William
Date: 2011-01-21 15:01
A couple quick fix's to try: 1) while she is playing a note--C5 TO A5 will do--press her rh thumb upperward towards her mouth. This will cause the embouchure to tense up a bit and give more support to the tone; 2) also, while she is playing, grab hold of the barrel and gently try to wiggle it, side to side. This will also cause the embouchure to tense up and give more support. They've always worked for my students--give them a try.......
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Author: kdk
Date: 2011-01-21 16:08
A couple of thoughts based on my own experience:
The most common reason I find that students aren't able to play in tune above G5 (space above the staff) is that their reeds are too soft (for their mouthpiece). What combination is the student using? The cause of the pitch problem is inadequate pressure against the reed, but if the reed is too soft to resist the needed pressure, she can't fix the problem without closing it off completely. (You may be able to do this even with her reeds on her mouthpiece, but she hasn't developed either the control or the concept of embouchure that you have.)
Mouthpiece angle can have an effect on this. Yes, a very close, vertical angle will tend to cause flatness if everything else isn't correct. It certainly is possible to play in tune even with the ligature all the way against the chin, but experimenting with it a little won't hurt anything.
Another possibility that can contribute to this is taking too much or too little mouthpiece into the mouth. Most young students take too little reed, causing the same effect as too soft a reed - adequate pressure to control the pitch closes the reed off. Sometimes, though, usually on the advice of a teacher who isn't careful when correcting too little mouthpiece, the student ends up going well past the ideal pressure point. Usually this causes unlistenable tone and lots of squawks, but if the reed has been chosen to allow the problem, the player ends up beyond the point on the reed where she has any real control of the pitch. Show her where the point of separation is between the reed and the mouthpiece, then have her put the mouthpiece into her embouchure in a normal playing position and lick the reed all the way down to her lower lip. See how close or far away she is (where the saliva from her tongue stops) from the actual separation point. Then go from there if the difference is pronounced in either direction.
Overlying all of the above is the probability that her lower lip isn't firmly against her teeth and she's in effect trying to support whatever reed is vibrating in her embouchure with her lip only, without any support from the lower teeth. That can be caused by any combination of the above or just be a bad habit in itself.
Karl
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Author: Pascal
Date: 2011-01-21 16:37
Thanks for taking the time, everyone. Yeah, I have also tried with clarinet angles, more lip pressure, etc. I will try again, along with different upper teeth placements. In the end, I will probably re-check everything I've done in class and trying some interesting ideas from you that I haven't yet done. In the meantime, keep posting if you have another suggestion.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-01-21 22:28
Pascal -
I assume you've played your student's setup, with her mouthpiece and reed. As my old teacher Jay Craven used to say, "I won't give you anything worse than diphtheria." If she's afraid, take off the mouthpiece and reed and rinse them after you play. It's important to show her that the instrument, exactly as she plays it, can sound right.
Next, make sure she has her lower lip placed properly. Her lower teeth should be exactly under the point where the reed and the lay separate.
Have her close her eyes and play chalumeau D, mezzo forte and with firm air support. When the D is established, reach behind the clarinet and press the register key. This pops the sound up to the A without the changes in embouchure, tongue, soft palate, throat, finger pressure and support that usually cause the problem.
Then have her do slurring up exercise I discussed in my final message in the string at http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=4212&t=4103. Have her play the bottom E and press so gradually on the register key that she can't predict when the tone will pop up to third-line B. Continue up to F-C, F#-C# and so on. When she reaches A, have her continue on to the altissimo by rolling her left index finger slowly down off the hole, so that it's A-E-C#, Bb-F-D, and so on. Have her concentrate on keeping everything the same except for the tiny movements of her left thumb and index finger. Also, have her concentrate on keeping her finger pressure as light as possible. She shouldn't clutch the instrument when she plays high notes.
Keep us informed of her progress and we may have more ideas.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2011-01-22 15:19
Does the e11 have the stock mouthpiece? They're far too open for students. Spec on them is something like 1.25mm.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: Tony M
Date: 2011-01-22 21:59
I'm not a teacher but I was always told that I had to hear those notes (particularly above the third G) before I played them. Could it be that she is hearing them flat in her head and aiming for the wrong pitch? Maybe a bit of singing or vocalising would help.
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