 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Angela
Date: 1999-04-12 22:13
I'm playing a movement from a von Weber piece and I'm having trouble getting out the high g(4 lines above the staff). Any helpful suggestions to make getting that note out easier and more consistantly would be very helpful. Thanks in advance
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Author: Clare
Date: 1999-04-13 00:07
You could half-hole the first hole for your left hand. That always helps. Drop the jaw and use lots of air and support too.
-Clare
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-04-13 00:48
Are you fairly "new" at playing this high? Trying warming up with a SLOW scale up to and down from this note so that your body learns the amount of breath and embouchure support needed. Work on slow arpeggios or scales in thirds going up to and down from the G so that you get accustomed to jumps. Work on holding long tones on the G so that you develop a steady embouchure. The higher you go, the more sensitive the notes are to variations in embouchure. Once your body has learned the support and steadiness required, then you should be able to make the note speak immediately.
Get a really good fingering chart and check out the different fingerings. Some speak better on some clarinets than others. There are at least 10 fingerings for this note and possibly more. The complete Klose method book and the Rubank Advanced Method books come with pretty good charts. There are others of course but you should be able to find one of these at your local band store if you are in a hurry.
Also what mouthpiece, reed brand and reed strength are you using? On reeds that are too soft, it is difficult to properly control this note as you end up pinching to get it. Although some jazz players may use a soft reed up there, they have a particular reason to do so and sound that they are striving for but it takes a great deal of skill.
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Author: 'nifer
Date: 1999-04-13 01:33
i find that thinking low while you play high helps the note to speak well :-)
'nifer
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-04-13 04:49
Dee wrote:
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Get a really good fingering chart and check out the different fingerings. Some speak better on some clarinets than others. There are at least 10 fingerings for this note and possibly more. The complete Klose method book and the Rubank Advanced Method books come with pretty good charts. There are others of course but you should be able to find one of these at your local band store if you are in a hurry.
As a side note, there are over 30 possible fingerings for altissimo G. There are really only about 6 that are neccessary to know. I believe the Ridenour book covers about 24 or so fingerings for high G but i don't remember for certain.
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-04-13 04:56
The fingering you use for G is dependant on several factors.
1: How long is the G? If it's relatively short, you can get away with using a fingering that is easy to get too but a little flat or sharp. If it's long, then it would be best to use a fingering well in tune and full even if it may be harder to get to from where you're coming.
which brings us to another condition
2: What notes are preceeding and following the G? As it's been said, there are a multitude of possibilities.
3: Of course, your horn is individual as is everyone elses' horns. What might be smack-dab on the nose for one person might be quite sharp for you.
Maybe you can mention the specific piece and movement in question so we can better relate the trouble spot and offer our ideas.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 1999-04-13 17:43
Angela wrote:
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I'm playing a movement from a von Weber piece and I'm having trouble getting out the high g(4 lines above the staff). Any helpful suggestions to make getting that note out easier and more consistantly would be very helpful. Thanks in advance
Angela -
It would help to know which Weber piece and movement you're playing, and which passage, since different fingerings work better in different places.
Do you have the problem with all of your reeds? Try a slightly harder reed, or move your regular reed up a little bit (maybe the width of a pencil line).
The standard fingering, with thumb, register key, left middle finger, right index and middle fingers and Ab/Eb key, is decent, but others are better.
A better fingering, and the one I use whenever possible, is the same as the standard fingering, except with the left index finger down and left middle finger up. This is more secure than the standard fingering and is less likely to crack or squeak. Also, on my setup, and most others I've tried, the sound is a little better.
The higher you go, the more critical it becomes to have the correct placement of the reed on your lip. You'll have to experiment some to find the right place, which should be exactly where the reed separates from the lay.
Also, pinching, biting or squeezing can choke off a high note. The best cure is to play double lip (with the upper lip over the teeth), at least while you're learning to play the high notes.
The energy to play the high notes comes from the breath as well as the embouchure. Take in plenty of air and support the tone on a cushion of air.
Keep at it. Things get better with practice. Tell yourself "G is *not* a high note -- it's just like any other note."
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-04-13 19:09
Ken,
One of the problems I have playing the altissimo is the volume - the notes are more powerful and penetrating the higher you get. To even out the volume I use less air (while trying not to redude the air support), which:
1) makes the tone spread and
2) they get flat.
I'm constantly trying to adjust my embouchure trying to compensate for less air, with the result of notes that sometimes don't speak, or ones with excite even higher partials (:^) [they squeak!]
For instance, during a simple exercise going back and forth ffrom clarion F# to altissimo C#, the C# will apparently be much louder than the F#.
I know most of what I need to do is practice, practice, and a bit more practice - but other than that, are there any pointers you or others can give to help us even out (or control) the volume, especially at mid and lower (mf and below) volumes?
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-04-13 22:27
Mark Charette:
Wow. You almost read my mind. I'm just about right where you are in this area of the clarinet. I too am very interested in getting these notes right, and for the same reasons. I know it's not my horn, it's me. I have a very difficult time controlling the volume with sufficient air support to make the notes speak softly with control - apparently just like you.
In a nutshell, how do better players get the altissimo to speak well and sweetly? The few times I "hit it just right" it feels and sounds like I've copied Goodman or Hermann instead of scratching a chalkboard.
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-04-14 02:09
Mark Charette wrote:
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Ken,
One of the problems I have playing the altissimo is the volume - the notes are more powerful and penetrating the higher you get. To even out the volume I use less air (while trying not to redude the air support), which:
1) makes the tone spread and
2) they get flat.
I'm constantly trying to adjust my embouchure trying to compensate for less air, with the result of notes that sometimes don't speak, or ones with excite even higher partials (:^) [they squeak!]
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What seems to help a lot is making sure that the diaphragm and abdominal muscles are pushing just as strongly on the soft notes as they are on the forte notes. In other words no matter what volume of air you are pushing, the PRESSURE of the air needs to be constant. I find that very little embouchure change is needed and that it then falls in the subconscious realm where the adjustment is in response to what you hear and is small enough that if you tried to deliberately adjust it, you would overcompensate.
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Author: Meri
Date: 1999-04-15 20:16
I think the question is not about fingering, but about the response of the altissimo G.
Here is an exercise, one by brass player Chase Sandborn, which applies to virtually any instrument when played in the highest range. (It was in Canadian Musician about a year or two ago)
Begin with any of the sounds in the altissimo range. (D above the treble staff may be good.) Play this note ff, and listen for the response.
If the sound 'clicks' into place, hold the tone for 8-12 counts, at M.M. 72. Repeat the above, but at the next lower dynamic level, until you can get it as soft as possible.
If the sound does not 'click', repeat at the dynamic level that you attempted.
Meri
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 1999-04-15 23:32
Mark Charette wrote:
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Ken,
One of the problems I have playing the altissimo is the volume - the notes are more powerful and penetrating the higher you get. To even out the volume I use less air (while trying not to reduce the air support), which:
1) makes the tone spread and
2) they get flat.
I'm constantly trying to adjust my embouchure trying to compensate for less air, with the result of notes that sometimes don't speak, or ones with excite even higher partials (:^) [they squeak!]
For instance, during a simple exercise going back and forth from clarion F# to altissimo C#, the C# will apparently be much louder than the F#.
I know most of what I need to do is practice, practice, and a bit more practice - but other than that, are there any pointers you or others can give to help us even out (or control) the volume, especially at mid and lower (mf and below) volumes?
Mark -
There are a bunch of things to think about and work on.
One of the best exercises is an extended version of the one you describe above, working on the same fingering in 3 registers. Start with good, firm low A. Press the register key very gently and gradually, so that you can't predict when you will jump to the E above. Do that a few times to get both registers sounding good. Then play the A, go to E, and very gradually roll your left index fingertip down to leak the hole. Once again, you should not be able to predict when you will jump up to the C#.
Try not to make any change in embouchure or tongue, throat and palate position. Keep the middle E and, as much as possible, the low A tone quality in your ear, and carry the "roundness" into the third register. C#, after all, is not a particularly high note, and it helps to think of it as "not all that high."
It’s reasonably easy to keep your fingers relaxed and resting lightly on the keys for the low A and the middle E. Concentrate on keeping it the same for the C#. It's very tempting to squeeze hard with your fingers to try to get the note out. Embouchure pinching and hand tension feed off each other.
When you get the A/E/C# sequence under control, move to Bb/F/D, and so on up to Eb/Bb/G. When you do BB/F/D, don't add the Ab/Eb "resonance" key the first few times. Tolerate the flatness to keep finger movement as small as possible until you feel comfortable.
I play double lip full time. It will help in these exercises if you can use double lip at least part time, since this makes the slur smoother, and any tension or lack of physical coordination will be more obvious to you.
Many method books tell you to use an AHH vowel shape in your mouth for low notes and to move more and more toward EEE as you go higher, on the theory that the higher pitch needs a higher vowel or a smaller resonating chamber in the mouth. For me, doing this produces nothing but a thin tone and squeaks on the high notes. Instead, the higher I go, the more I try to stay aware of keeping an AHH vowel, to keep the lower register smoothness and sweetness as I go higher.
You have less flexibility in where you place your lower lip on the reed is the altissimo register. The perfect point is exactly where the reed separates from the mouthpiece. Hold the instrument vertical and with the reed facing left (or right, if you prefer). Note the separation point and make a very light pencil mark on the reed. Your lower teeth should be exactly at that mark.
There are as many theories about how to form an embouchure as there are players, but one thing is sure: contortions produce tension. With the clarinet in your lap, relax your face, lower your jaw a little bit and "pierce" your closed lips with the mouthpiece. As you provide muscular support, the skin surface should move as little as possible, so that your facial expression is as close as possible to how it would be if you were not playing.
One important way to control the brightness of your tone is to put more or less of your lower lip over your teeth. Most of the method books say you should put about half of the red part of the lower lip over the teeth. This is noticeably less than most people use. When I want a more penetrating sound, I stretch the tip of my chin down, thinning the pad over my lower teeth and pulling all but a small part of the red part of my lower lip outside my teeth. This adds energy and brightness to the sound and lets me balance other instruments without having to play louder. Schoenberg called it "Hauptstimme" (main voice) and called for it when he wanted a part to be heard, even if it was not the highest line.
By going the opposite way, relaxing the effort to keep the tip of my chin down, the skin bunches up slightly, more of the red part of my lip goes over my teeth, and the pad between my teeth and the reed gets thicker. This softens the sound quality, making it more covered. Schoneberg called it "Nebenstimme" (neighbor voice) and called for it when he wanted a part not to be dominant, even if higher in pitch than the main line. By thickening and enlarging the pad over your teeth, you can play high notes with a "covered" quality. You really never have to worry about being “spread” on top. You'll always be heard. Think of being warm, smooth and neighborly.
As Dee says, it's important to have good breath support. However, this does not necessarily mean blowing hard. Thin the airstream down, so that it feels like it has speed and momentum, but not too much volume.
The reed is more critical for the high notes. If you're having trouble playing soft in the altissimo, the tip of the reed is probably too stiff. Put the reed on a flat piece of glass and stroke with rush, 600 grit sandpaper, or other fine abrasive, always toward the tip, to thin it down slightly from the tip back 3/16" or so. Make the area you work on curved, to match the shape of the tip. The thinner tip will vibrate more easily in the altissimo, while the thicker area behind will keep the sound from being buzzy. Work *very* slowly, and be prepared to ruin some reeds as you learn.
Also, as I have said before, the reed works better when it is very slightly narrower than the tip - about the width of a light pencil line. Narrow the reed on a fine file or sandpaper, always leading with the butt end. Then, using a nail file, carefully take off a tiny amount of the sharp corners at the sides of the tip, which cause whistles. Then hold the reed on with your thumb and move it from side to side in tiny increments to find the (very obvious) place where the ease of playing and resonance are greatest; hold the reed there and very carefully put on the ligature. Take extra care to make sure there is no non-sealing areas, particularly at the corners of the tip of the reed.
Finally, make sure the bottom of the reed is absolutely flat and smooth.
Pad tightness is more important as you go higher. Even the tiniest leak, particularly in the upper joint, can make the horn impossible to play up high. Also, the less the register key opens the better. It's easy to experiment by putting one or more layers of adhesive tape under the bottom end of the key touch. While you're at it, take off the register key and clean out the tube with a pipe cleaner and a drop or two of isopropyl alcohol.
The mouthpiece makes a difference, of course. An open mouthpiece is more difficult to play softly in the altissimo, but, on the other hand, it's is less fussy about reeds. For me, it's been worthwhile to go to a closer lay and spend more time adjusting reeds.
Different barrel bores can also affect control of the high notes. Try a Moennig or Chadash barrel if they're available for your Selmer. Better yet, go to a custom mouthpiece maker and get a mouthpiece and barrel matched to your instrument and your playing style.
In the end, all the abstract description can't do nearly as much as a teacher who can hear and see exactly what you’re doing. Also, if you're not in a playing group, you should be. Playing with a group is a tremendous charge, and with other people to play along with, you don't feel so bad about missing a note or not getting one of the high notes just right.
Practice makes perfect, but playing with others makes pleasure, and counts as practice.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Ken Shaw
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-04-19 16:09
An excellent and detailed posting.
This one's a keeper for my growing "tips and tricks" file.
Thanks
May I add one little tidbit to your posting? I'd like to stress the importance of a slow and methodical warm-up to the ability to play the clarinet, especially in the altissimo register. I personally have found that when I take the time to very gradually warm-up starting from the low chalemeau and gradually working up from there, I can play the altissimo register with a lot more control and better intonation. Maybe I'm onto something here...
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