 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-01-17 21:12
So I'm getting older and older, and my job (army musician) thankfully allows me and ENCOURAGES me to get better, practice, and bring my level of musicality up.
Unfortunately, by the time I realized I really like music,I had decided to join the army to play as much as possible (working fairly well so far).
While I'm getting better, progress is slow trying to divide up my time amongst all the things going on with life, and I'm just curious right now as to the possibility of going to school to get a masters fulltime (I hope to get a bachelors in SOMETHING by then) in music, and what are the possibilities/probabilities of being able to score some paying gigs?
I intend to practice as I can till then, and take lessons as regularly as I can with my schedule, but I feel as though I really can't be as dedicated as I would like to be until I retire and no longer have to allocate my time to so many areas. And it's a little frustrating. I feel as though if I had felt about playing ten years ago how I feel about it now, I would be in a college REALLY honing my skills and working on being a GREAT player. Whereas right now I feel like it's taking me 3 times as long to get better as it would if I were in college.
So has anyone heard of people really coming into their own at that age and is it just as likely for me to get into a good school for a masters at that age as the 23 year old who is young and "malleable" and "more likely to hold a successful career"? I'm just worried about under the table age discrimination when I send out applications. And then after GETTING my masters and finally having been able to spend time really honing my skills, being discriminated against again if I were to apply for some spots in whatever minor symphonies or bands that might be around.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-01-17 21:45
Read the article about symphony jobs in America on my website to get an idea of what it takes to get a job in an orchestra. I assume you're not in one of the major army bands by the way you talked, correct me if I'm wrong. There won't be a problem with you getting into a good music school at your age, you just have to be good enough to get in and have meet their requirements. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2011-01-17 22:01
I believe that you may not be giving your present situation enough credit. Sure you can't sit and practice eight hours straight in the middle of the day (well, doubt if that's possible doing required classes either) but what you have is a gig that forces you to produce on days you really don't feel like it. You have a slight cold (congestion), you have a gig, you play. You are feeling a little tired from too little sleep the night before, you have a gig, you play, etc.
There is NOTHING like the necessity of having to produce when you don't feel like it to make you a better player. Of course there must be self discipline involved too so that you can squeeze in some semblance of a practice routine that is truly meaningful. Over the course of many years in a similar situation I feel that I have made more meaningful progress than I ever did in academia.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2011-01-17 23:01
Paul Aviles wrote:
> I believe that you may not be giving your present situation
> enough credit. Sure you can't sit and practice eight hours
> straight in the middle of the day (well, doubt if that's
> possible doing required classes either) but what you have is a
> gig that forces you to produce on days you really don't feel
> like it. You have a slight cold (congestion), you have a gig,
> you play. You are feeling a little tired from too little sleep
> the night before, you have a gig, you play, etc.
>
> There is NOTHING like the necessity of having to produce when
> you don't feel like it to make you a better player. Of course
> there must be self discipline involved too so that you can
> squeeze in some semblance of a practice routine that is truly
> meaningful. Over the course of many years in a similar
> situation I feel that I have made more meaningful progress than
> I ever did in academia.
>
>
> ...............Paul Aviles
>
I hear ya Paul. One thing I really like about being an army musician as well is the vastly different types of music I get to/have to play. I'm going to be playing in WWQ, and am working up Benny's Gig for a a recital with a friend (accompanying him for his recital - double bass), have played dixie, pop, I've played around with some bop stuff, things like that. And I feel that the education I'm getting in the army's bands is certainly different than what I'd get in a music school.
Well, I just hope that when I retire, I'll be at a high level of playing and I hope to be able to just find some group to play some great music with and find a school that will accept me and continue to challenge me. I'm glad to hear that a school will still accept me at any age. I guess it was silly of me to ask. "Will you accept my thousands of dollars even though I'm older?" How could I have expected the answer would be, "no"?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-01-18 00:50
The probability of scoring some paying gigs is quite low, regardless of how/when you got your masters. There'll be plenty of discrimination due to "hundreds of qualified applicants within a 20 mile radius."
Private lessons, church gigs, and, if you're lucky, teaching college level are the likely sources of income for a clarinet graduate.
I'd recommend broadening your horizons even wider. For every 100 university clarinetists, there are 10 who play a handful of flavors of jazz like you do, but maybe 1 who also plays folk, rock, metal, and hip hop. (I'm still getting to hip hop)
Grad school is as much networking as it is training. It's all too common for people to get out of grad school (or undergrad for that matter) and suddenly go from 10 ensembles to 0, praying before bed every night for a better-than-mediocre wind quintet or community orchestra with an empty slot. Effectively, you've paid for a couple years of happy-fun-ensemble-camp, and at the end of it you've become a person who's good at happy-fun-ensemble-camp.
If what you expect to get out of grad school is training on your instrument and the hope of someone handing you a job, you're... well, I wouldn't say wasting your time (because it's fun time), but you're wanking off. If you treat it as a time and place to learn how to be a musician and learn how to start projects and adapt to different styles and to find people to play and to establish a network of willing and eager musicians, you might actually have something when you finish other than a piece of paper and an extra $1/hr at Mickey D's.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-01-18 01:17
Alexi -
Laura Ardan in Atlanta is an amazing player. It's 150 miles from Augusta, but if you're serious about becoming a professional player, it's worth it, at least once a month.
On the other hand, as Ed P. says, the competition to make a living as a musician is ferocious, particularly on clarinet. If you're not single-minded enough (and driven enough) to practice, say, 8 hours a day, every day, you can't hope to reach the necessary level.
If you're not satisfied as a military musician, you need to find another way to make a living. Your postings show that you're an intelligent and thoughtful person. By all means you should get a college degree. Even if you make it as a musician, you need to know lots more than music. All the great musicians are civilized people who have broad knowledge about the world.
Ask around about the numerous colleges in Augusta for the one that offers the best curriculum in literature, history and civilization. http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=sH0&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=colleges+augusta+georgia&aq=2v&aqi=g-c1g-m1g-v8&aql=&oq=colleges++augusta
Ken Shaw
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-01-18 01:29
Alexi --
I would like to share with you a cautionary tale, from a friend (real life person, and real friend) of mine. (I have another friend with virtually the same story, but for the sake of coherence, I will just focus on this one.)
He went out of high school into an Air Force band. At that point, he didn't have a whole lot of sense of direction, nor did he have any musical background beyond his high school training in clarinet. Reminds me of how you were when you started, in a lot of ways.
He started out with a post band in Germany, and then successfully auditioned for the Band of Europe. He stayed in for a hitch or two, and decided the grass was greener elsewhere.
He ended up NOT playing clarinet, but working as a salesman, selling a variety of industrial products. He was good at it, and made a living, but without much in the way of pension or benefits. Now, as he looks back on his career, he kicks himself around the block, probably on a daily basis, for ever leaving the military bands.
Had he stayed in, he would have had a decent career as a PAID musician, would have retired at a relatively young age with a pension and benefits, and would have been at the top of his game, musically, at that point. He would have had many more options as a young retiree, both musically and financially, than he ended up with.
He is now an old man, way past Medicare age, STILL WORKING because he didn't have a pension or benefits in his sales career. He is also still playing the clarinet and sax in a variety of community bands, and playing well, but not nearly as well as he would have had he stayed in the military band program.
You have got a sweet gig. Don't blow it.
Susan
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2011-01-18 14:31
Susan's story makes sense to me, but there is one other factor that should be given an unknown amount of weight: there is a new Congress in D.C. with its finger on the Federal dollar. Some of these people have already made noise about money 'wasted' on military bands.
We do not have to start replaying the arguments about why military bands should or should not exist. The important point is that to many members of Congress, the only things that matter are (a) reducing federal spending and (b) not increasing taxes.
Will military bands be cut now? Will they be cut before Alexi can retire? Nobody knows. But the possibility that military bands could be cut should be a consideration for anyone who wants to have a career in a military band.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2011-01-18 20:15
I have an interesting story about ageism and a Masters degree. I auditioned for Masters at the Royal Academy in London a little over a year ago. What does the woman (who shall remain nameless, but a little research could tell you who...) say to me? "So, 24, you're old!". I felt like saying "No, I'm young. YOU'RE old." but she clearly thought that beginning a Masters at 24 was too old.
I'm taking on a job in an Army band INSTEAD of Masters. Afterall, the point of postgraduate study was to get a better chance of becoming a paid musician and I have done that with just an undergrad degree. I have friends who finished their degrees and went straight into masters degrees and never made it as musicians and are working in other fields now. I think there's a lot of wisdom in realising when you're in a good place and not rocking the boat.
I'm certainly not telling you what to do, don't read too much into my comment above; just don't assume a masters degree is going to get you extra paid work. Perhaps try and see what else could help you out? Taking lessons and networking ought to get you somewhere.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-01-18 20:37
Well Alexi, at the risk of being accused (rightly) of being a depressing curmudgeon, permit me to point out that it is possible to study non-musical subjects in school, graduate with a non-musical degree, obtain non-musical employment which pays for such minor details as food, housing, children (gasp!), etc., while continuing to practice and perform music --- albeit on a more limited scale (no pun intended). And although you would be performing a lot less (and getting paid little or nothing for it), at least you would be able to pick and choose what you play and with/for whom you play.
No doubt I'm just speaking as a bitter old musician-wannabe, but realistically, unless you play about as well as Ricardo, you should probably consider making a living by some other means than playing the clarinet.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2011-01-18 20:47
David makes an interesting point. The difference between an amateur musician and a professional is that the pro gets paid to produce music and must do so to retain his job. The amateur produces music for the joy of music, and anything beyond that is icing on the cake. The amateur can do what he loves without fear that he will starve while doing it. He has another income source to fall back on.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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