 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2010-09-12 20:39
Apparently Jupiter is coming out with a new student bass? On WWBW, it says it has all the same features as the 673N, but the low Eb is on the body, not the bell. Hm. Any thoughts on this? They say it will be available September 15th, and you can reserve one now. Ive heard some good things about the 673N.
Post Edited (2010-09-12 21:10)
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Author: Kontra
Date: 2010-09-12 21:27
Oops. My bad. I guess the way WWBW said you can "reserve" them threw me off. Well, has anyone had any luck with these?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-12 21:50
Well it wouldn't be the first time that there's an ever so small delay between an announcement an the First Customer Ship date...
Actually, I'm still scratching my head over the benefits of an Eb-on-body vs an Eb-on-bell bass (doesn't Vito have these two as well?) except from the former being more "klutz friendly" as you can do a bit less damage when assembling the horn.
Personally, I'd rather see them make a low-D student bass (I wouldn't mind whether that D'd be on the bell or the body). Now that would make me pant.
AFAIK, Jupiters are good reliable instruments; we're having several of them (mostly brass) in the band's instrument dungeon. Not necessarily exciting, but dependable. They're in business long enough to be past the "cheap imitation" image.
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Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-12 22:57
If the low Eb key is on the body and there's an open bell vent (with no key covering it as on Buffet low C basses), you can close off the bell vent to get low D.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-09-12 22:58)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-12 23:20
Chris P wrote:
> If the low Eb key is on the body and there's an open bell vent
> (with no key covering it as on Buffet low C basses), you can
> close off the bell vent to get low D.
So the question remains ... why on earth didn't Jupiter and Leblanc (L7168) go the extra yard and fitted the bell vent with a key? Cost $10 or maybe $20 to manufacture...
(FWIW the pictures show a more plump bell with no vent)
--
Ben
Post Edited (2010-09-12 23:22)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-09-13 03:22
I assume as the low Eb key is on the longer lower joint, they may have a vent for the low Eb on the bell bow (like Buffet Prestige basses).
Here's some photos of the 675N bass I've found:
http://www.dawkes.co.uk/instrument-Jupiter+JCL-675N+Bass+Clarinet.html
http://www.jupitermusic.com/jbi_instrumentDetails.aspx?cId=52&lId=2&sId=1&pId=527
Unfortunately they only show the 'business' side of the instrument instead of a 360° view.
I might be seeing things, but if you zoom in on the bell bow (pictured on the Jupiter site) I think the low Eb vent is located on the other side of the bell just below the socket, unless that's something dodgy with the photo or my eyes. It looks like there's a vent hole there drawn from the tubing like a normal bell tonehole.
Where's Merlin Williams when you need him? OI! MERLIN!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-09-13 03:24)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-09-13 06:22
>> except from the former being more "klutz friendly" <<
That's exactly why, no problems from students assembling the bell messing something up (shouldn't really be a problem, but I guess some might damage something).
>> and fitted the bell vent with a key? Cost $10 or maybe $20 to manufacture... <<
To make the parts, maybe. But for this they need to change the design and this can cost more in the intial investment. Also it requires the bell key, posts, lever key (preferably two levers, so even more posts and screws), more posts, spring, spring hole, etc. etc. and doubtful they would sell more. Designing it all might be the main expense.
This is of course assuming the bell does actually have an open tone hole. If not, the entire bell would have to be re-designed. But even if it has the open vent for Eb, it is tuned for Eb and it doesn't mean closing it would give a good D. If not, again the bell would have to be re-designed. It's very likely they added the key and extra length to the lower joint in a way so they can use the same bell design (but without the key) to save costs of changing the bell design. Then if closing that hole gives a low D that might be just a lucky coincidence.
>> I might be seeing things, but if you zoom in on the bell bow (pictured on the Jupiter site) I think the low Eb vent is located on the other side of the bell <<
It looks like it has it and it would make sense that it wouldm considering the design and manufacturing issues mentioned above.
I've played the Jupiter and would place it somewhere in the middle between the Chinese bass clarinets I've tried to the Yamaha 221.
Post Edited (2010-09-13 06:35)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-09-13 08:32
clarnibass wrote:
> To make the parts, maybe. But for this they need to change the
> design and this can cost more in the intial investment. Also it
> requires the bell key, posts, lever key (preferably two levers,
> so even more posts and screws), more posts, spring, spring
> hole, etc. etc. and doubtful they would sell more. Designing it
> all might be the main expense.
Sure, the initial design costs more than the manufacturing. So did already the Eb-on-body design. On the other hand, you'd gain access to all orchestral Cello parts (going down to low concert C), at a fraction of the cost for a "low C" bass. It all depends on where marketing envisions the main use for such an instrument.
--
Ben
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Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2010-09-13 17:22
Here I am!
I can't really comment on the Jupiter bass clarinets. I play a Jupiter Bb clarinet, but not the bass, as my work requires a low C bass clarinet, and Jupiter does not make one (at present).
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2011-01-10 20:29
So, with the Euro on a all-time low, and, on the other side, an all-time high in my wallet I ordered the 675. With three years' warranty and 30 days money-back I thought I couldn't lose all that much, and seeing that the very same instrument costs ~1K more here it shouldn't be all that hard to sell should I be inclined to do so. (The Yamaha 221 would've cost me twice the amount I paid for the Jupiter)
Now, what did I get? I ordered the 675 with the Eb key on the body, as it came in a compact case instead of the long single-piece case usually associated with that class of instrument. The case is very sturdy and can be stored horizontally or vertically, it has handles and feet on either side. Apart from the usual microfiber cloth, the operating manual (yay!) and a reed the accessory box also contains a comfy neck strap. Nice.
The body looks like a knock-off of the Vito 7168 - same register mechanism, same layout, same everything. I don't know if the design is copied or licensed, and frankly I don't really care. However, there are some subtle differences:
- the keywork is silver-plated. (this is the 675S model, only found in Europe AFAIK). The plating is not as thick and fat as we're used from soprano clarinets, and I'll see how it holds up. But I prefer silver-plate and it made my decision easier.
- the thumb rest is adjustable.
- the tone holes are undercut.
- the pads are white leather throughout.
- the bell is the standard Eb-on-bell thing, with just the Eb key missing, ie there's just the tone hole which serves as a resonance hole.
The keywork looks very sturdy. The material is thicker than on my Bundy and a cautious pressure test looked promising - no bending and no slop. Action is crisp and the pads close with a nice thud with no spongy feeling. Pads show only minimal impression rings. The finish looks reasonably refined, no tool traces, no sharp edges, no excess glue or unsightly trimmed corks.
The tenon corks were sanded down accurately - it just takes a bit of grease and everything goes together nicely and smoothly. No red face while assembling, but no wobble afterwards either. Many bumpers aren't made of cork but of white felt with the same consistence as a pad felt.
The floor peg is long enough and about the thickest I've ever seen - a whopping 9.5mm diameter. The corresponding knurled nut is easy to operate even with sweaty hands. As a result, the instrument stands as motionless as if nailed to the floor.
I didn't bother to test the enclosed mouthpiece as I forgot where I last put my cushions, so the testing was done on a Bundy Signature.
The intonation of the cold instrument, with everything shoved in, was just right for A=442. Later I could pull the neck by 2..3mm, just as I do on my Bundy. The neck angle does not have the old-style tenor-sax form, and not the steep modern angle either, it's somewhere in between and very comfortable to play. The bass played right out of the box, everything was tight and nothing required regulation, easy to play from the lowermost Eb up to the altissimo G. I checked with a tuner, and all notes stayed within a +- ~8 cents bandwidth. Also the subjective loudness was quite even, although the throat tones are less resistant than others, not really surprising. The tone sounded okay, but in my experience the tone depends a lot on the mouthpiece, reed, and room, so I can't really make a qualified statement; I'd have to record it and listen to the recording first. Venting was good in the sense that I didn't hear any hiss or rush noise when air escapes past an open pad.
I noodled through my soprano and bass repertoire and found no really weak notes (one quickly adapts, I guess), although upper clarion B and C required conscious articulation - as often found on single-register basses. Register jumps were effortless (I played the Prélude from Bach's Cello Suite) and required only minimal embouchure adaption. Alternate fingerings worked in the usual way, eg "1+1" Eb (Txoo-xoo) was indistinguishable from the traditional fingering with the side trill. The key noise (from pads and keywork as such) was unobtrusive, and nothing was clattering. Very smooth and nice to play indeed.
Now, that "resonance vent" on the bell... I plugged the hole and played a low Eb, and out came a Concert C, some 25 cents sharp. In a pinch, usable, at least better than stuffing paper cones and whatnot into the bell.
I can only relate to my gone-through-rough-times Bundy which is about 35 years older and a whole lot rattlier. I expected a new instrument to be better in this regards, no doubt. But I also guess that Jupiter has come a long way in the last 30 years in terms of workmanship and overall quality.
I guess I keep it.
(disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Jupiter in any way)
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-01-10 20:40
Nice review, Ben! Now here's an experiment for you: Pull the bell out far enough to allow you to play an in-tune low written D (concert C) by covering the 'resonance' vent hole on the bell. Now remove the tape (or whatever you put over the bell hole; I recommend an old pad taped over the hole) and check the pitch of the low written Eb (concert Db). If it's not lowered too much by the pulling out of the bell (I'd say 10 cents flat would be easily tolerable), then there's your answer for extending the range to low D: Pull out the bell by the necessary amount (and insert some sort of spacer to keep it there), put a key over the bell hole, and build a mechanism to operate it.
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