 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stacyc
Date: 2010-11-20 02:44
I have a Buffet E11 and playing VERY sharp in the upper register from A all the way up to E. I have tried the following mouthpieces to remedy the problem, Vandoren B45, HS*, Selmer C85/120, the cheapo buffet one that came with it and now a Vandoren 5RV. I am chronically between a 1/2 to 3/4 a pitch sharp. I took it to the dealer I purchased it at and the technician played on it and didn't have much problem. He was a little sharp when he hit A and above but nothing like me. Reeds used have been, Vandoren 3, 3.5 and 4, Rico Reserve 3.5 and 4, Mitchell Lurie 4 and 4.5. I have tried to lip it down but that is impossible to do when playing Waltz of the Flowers and a couple of the other songs we are performing for our Orchestra's christmas concert. Any tips, ideas or pointers. The technician mentioned putting thicker corks behind my pinky keys to close up the lower joint but that would dampen my tone and that is NOT something I am willing to do.
oh how I miss my selmer :( Never had this problem with it.
Thanks!!
~~Been playing clarinet 17yrs and counting, now playing with the local community orchestra and now my son has taken on the tradition and I couldn't be more proud!~~
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Author: SHMbass
Date: 2010-11-20 13:41
Before I performed on my R-13 Vintage, my clarinet was one of the older German made E-11s (before the much improved French made modern E-11s) which had the same difficulties. The issue could possibly lie with your embouchure tightening as a sort of compensation that you might have subconsciously done on your Selmer to play in tune in the upper clarion into altimisso. I would suggest practicing scales and passages from the music "double lipped", where you roll the upper lip over your top teeth as you do for your bottom teeth. This will give you the instant feedback of whether you are biting to reach those notes (you will essentially be biting down on your lip). Doubling lipping may feel funny, and is best done with either a neck strap or performing while sitting as to keep the bell of the clarinet on one leg. Some of the issue could also be the voicing, which relates back to the Selmer that you had performed on. It is entirely possible that the clarinet you played before was flat from the A on up, whereas your E-11 is notoriously sharp from that note up. Play around with a more relaxed voicing (instead of EE with your oral cavity, think ea or some other relaxed vowel). A tuner will be of great help when correcting these problems. It may be frustrating, but with lots of practice it will click!
Hope this helps
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-11-20 18:36
From an earlier thread:
I don't know what Buffet is doing with their new French-made E11s but, for years, they deliberately manufactured the German E11s to play at A = 442. (This is probably why we sometimes see posters to this board complaining that they play sharp.) In their advertising, Buffet described the E11 (at least the German one) as a (wooden) student model... As I recall, (OK, I'm too lazy to do an extensive search) it was Francois Kloc who said their reason for pitching the E11 a little on the sharp side was that they found that kids beginning on clarinet tended to play flat relative to kids on other instruments -- because of undeveloped embouchures.
The way Buffet made the instrument play sharp was to supply a short (64mm) barrel with it and their suggested solution for more advanced players who found the E11 sharp was to obtain a longer barrel. While a longer barrel would affect the pitch of all the notes on the instrument, it would have a greater effect on the left-hand notes than the right-hand notes. If you have a 64mm barrel, you might want to try a 65 or 66mm barrel and see if that helps solve your problem. If your son has a different clarinet, see if it has a longer barrel that you can try.
While a larger-chamber mouthpiece might also help bring your pitch down, I'm not aware that any of the mouthpieces you have tried have a general tendency to lower pitch. It seems to me that your tech's suggestion of lowering pad heights on your lower joint would have little, if any, effect given that your problem is with the upper joint. To see if it might, try closing the E/B key (either side) and see if that affects your pitch on the offending notes. If it does bring the pitch down, you have a potential solution -- adding that key to your fingering. Some carefully applied black electrician's tape in the top half of some of your upper joint tone holes should lower the pitch (it effectively lowers the tone hole and reduces its size, both of which should tend to lower pitch) but it will affect your lower register as well.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-11-20 20:49
It's most likely the fault of the register tube making that register sharp. I'd suggest that you ask your tech if he has different size tubes, both in length and in the inner tube diameter. It is very easy for them to "pop" the tube out and replace it. You need to try several size tubes to see if one makes a difference. Believe it or not, sometimes they come with the wrong size. An A tube in a Bb clarinet or visa versa. In any case, this is not unheard of, changing the tube, I've done it myself with my 13 A clarinet and have had several students tubes changed in the past when all else fails. Just make sure that your throat tone Bb is good as well as helping the pitch of the upper register. You want both to work well. You can bring the Bb down somewhat more easily then the problem you're having. You've tried enough mouthpiece that it isn't that. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: stacyc
Date: 2010-11-23 02:14
Thank you to everyone that replied and I did take all of your advice and tried double lipping, yes, I was using my old tricks from playing on a selmer, but it really was not anything very drastic, loosened it up and still sharp. Next I took it back to the shop and let them look at the tube. It was fine. I was really banking on that after everything else failed. And lastly the barrels, I tried out a Moennig and Chadash, not much difference, I was still playing at least 1/4 to 1/2 pitch sharp even with the barrel pulled out and between the top and lower joint.
So with that known I will admit now that the Buffet is not for me. I have played on Selmers for 17 years and they are comfortable to me like an old shoe. I was sucked in by the Buffet mafia when I was in the market for a new clarinet and there were no Selmers in stock at the store. Nor was I going to lay down the cash for a R13. So now I will go back to the ever so trusty Selmer Soloist !
~~Been playing clarinet 17yrs and counting, now playing with the local community orchestra and now my son has taken on the tradition and I couldn't be more proud!~~
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Author: William
Date: 2010-11-24 15:04
Regarding what EP wrote--"You need to try several size tubes to see if one makes a difference. Believe it or not, sometimes they come with the wrong size. An A tube in a Bb clarinet or visa versa"--it does not seem that your tech person nor you really tried hard enough to solve your sharpness problem. Just checking the tube to see if it "is fine" is not enough--you should have popped it out and tried several others before giving up on your E11. Also, perhaps your barrel is too short. Try a longer one so that when you have to pull it, it will not seem as if you are pulling it so far. Most clarinets SHOULD play sharp before warmed up with the barrel fully inserted. That gives you a little 'wiggle room' to pull when the general pitch of your clarinet does rise due to being properly warmed. For my R13s, I know that they will play A=440 cold with the barrel fully inserted and as they are warmed up, I will need to pull a little bit to maintain intonation.
Before you give up on your E11, try some alternative register vents and a longer barrel. Remember, being "in tune" with your tuner does not mean that you will be "in tune" with your ensemble. As a good local friend of mine always says, "It is better to *play* in tune than **be** in tune".
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-11-24 15:20
William beat me too it. Unless you actually tried different size tubes you really don't know if it makes a difference. I had my Buffet A clarinet tube changed years ago because the throat tone Bb was so so sharp. I tried many until I found the one that fixed that problem without doing harm to the rest of the instruments intonation. As I said, there are different lengths as well as different diameters. ESP
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2010-11-26 02:11
Surely an intonation problem this bad should never be allowed to get out of the factory?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-11-28 06:46
I just changed the tube on my new A clarinet. Makes a huge difference with intonation. The one I put in was a bit smaller in length and width. It also gets rid the thug sound you often feel and hear.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2010-11-28 12:56
Since the tech didn't have the same problem, I'm inclined to think that it is the setup rather than the horn itself. It would be instructive to know what the tech did differently.
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-11-28 16:27
I second Chris Moffatt- how many other people have tried the instrument, a useful thing would be to get some other (accomplished) players to play it, and compare it side by side with their own instrument.
dn
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